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Appeal to Inherent Nature

194 statements
35 feature instances
20 referencing feature instances

Appeal to Inherent Nature	type	FeatureClass
Appeal to Inherent Nature	label	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature	page	AppealToInherentNature
Appeal to Inherent Nature	comment	A subset of Appeal to Nature; if something is naturally predisposed to a certain act or state, it must be accepted. Snakes bite, bears maul, poisons kill, babies scream, sociopaths torture, and Nazis commit genocide; but those are their natures, so we should not hold it against them. This is usually a fallacy, but there are cases where it isn't. The key is consistency: if someone/something always reacts a particular way to a situation and always will, simply describing this is fundamentally correct. For instance, a computer will always do what you tell it to do (although not necessarily what you want it to do). Naturally, this is very difficult to do with people without implicitly denying that they are human or getting involved in tautologies: saying All Gays are Promiscuous is offensive, but saying that all Portuguese speakers speak Portuguese is stating the obvious. It's saying something is good because it's inherent to them that is the problem. Used as one of the Jerk Justifications. For when a man is appealing to his sexual nature, see I'm a Man; I Can't Help It. The Farmer and the Viper is similar, about how evil will always be evil so you shouldn't waste time on them. Compare to Culture Justifies Anything, where somebody argues that one shouldn't hold an action that is "part of my culture" against them, and It's What I Do, where characters justify their actions by saying it's what they do naturally.
Appeal to Inherent Nature	fetched	2024-04-16T04:45:12Z
Appeal to Inherent Nature	parsed	2024-04-16T04:45:12Z
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Appeal to Inherent Nature	processingComment	Dropped link to GodIsGood: Not an Item - FEATURE
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Appeal to Inherent Nature	processingComment	Dropped link to TheCasanova: Not an Item - FEATURE
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Appeal to Inherent Nature	isPartOf	DBTropes
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_1a12bbee	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_1a12bbee	comment	The Mighty Thor: Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and Because Destiny Says So). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain. For what it's worth being extremely rebellious and stubborn are also part of Loki's inherent nature so the more people question their ability to change the harder they try to (basically their approach to be good is the very same obsessiveness they used to try to conquer Asgard and/or defeat Thor with time and time again no matter how many times they failed).
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_2f3b380a	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_2f3b380a	comment	The Sandman, "A Dream of a Thousand Cats": The cat prophet tells her audience that if as few as a thousand cats dream of utopia together, they can change the world. One of them remarks afterward to a friend that it's a nice idea, but he can't imagine anyone managing to get that many cats to obey instructions at the same time.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_400469e	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_400469e	comment	Calvin and Hobbes: This is a favorite argument by both Calvin and Hobbes. Calvin claims that since his innate desires are towards selfishness and destruction, it's wrong for his parents and society to try and squash them and turn him into a productive member of society, and he should be allowed to run rampant and do whatever he wants. Hobbes, being a wild animal, has a slightly better case, since he's a predator, but since he's also intelligent, he's got a choice whether or not to follow his instincts, something he refuses to acknowledge.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_41b0198a	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_41b0198a	comment	The Dresden Files: Harry's first meeting with Mab ends with her telling him the story of the scorpion and the frog, to illustrate that, even when carrying out her mission will be extremely dangerous and put him through a lot of pain, she is quite certain that he will do it anyway, even when he knows it will likely kill him as refusing will be his death anyway. This is also brought up by Archangel Uriel with regards to Harry. Uriel can see the multiple paths people can choose to make as well as all the choices they made to this point, but by a certain point in their lives Uriel has a very good sense of what their nature will drive them to do. This isn't to say he is overriding their free will, which is forbidden by Him, but rather anticipating the human will be true to himself. In regards to Harry Uriel knew in three minor events he would help change things for the better, after he was kind to a woman whose child was nearly hit by a car, hexed some construction equipment so a drunk worker could sober up, and gave a heartfelt talk with a young girl who didn't know what to do in life, Uriel tells Harry that, respectively, the observation of a bruise on the child will snap the mother awake to the abuse her husband is doing and move out with the child ending a hundred year cycle of abuse in that family, the drunk worker's child will become sick and her only hope is a transplant and the father is a perfect match, and the conversation with the young lady will inspire her to be a counselor who will help thousands of people. All that said, Harry does shock Uriel by wanting to send Uriel a bill for services rendered (Uriel first thought Harry was trying to bill Him but Harry isn't that prideful). When Harry threatens to not help people if he isn't compensated, Uriel chuckles warmly and tells him, "No. You won't." Harry then notes Uriel is probably right. The spirit of this trope is often in play whenever Harry tries to have a civil conversation with the Fae; their particular nature gives them an inability to tell a direct lie, but serious discomfort from making clear, unambiguous statements and a compulsion to obey their rules and principles of balance, meaning that any conversation with them (even when they're genuinely trying to be helpful,) will be full of Exact Words, riddles and guesswork. Infuriating as he finds it, Harry eventually accepts that he just has to put up with it, and that a Fae who appears to be being obstructive may actually be doing everything to help him that their nature allows.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_49ad83ee	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_49ad83ee	comment	Often used in World of Warcraft on role-playing servers by trolls. "I am role playing. My character is a jerk!"
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_58907201	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_58907201	comment	A Sinfest strip illustrates the problem with this type of thinking when Fuchsia kicks dirt on Monique's shoes.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_58d80a4a	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_58d80a4a	comment	In Jingo, "71-hour Ahmed" points out that if this is a valid excuse for people to do bad things, then it's an equally valid excuse for those with a sense of justice to punish them:
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_671d5c19	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_671d5c19	comment	An episode of The Powerpuff Girls (1998) involved around an Animal Wrongs Group defending Mojo Jojo against the titular girls because they believed it was his natural instinct to do everything he did (including acting human, building complex machinery, and trying to conquer the city). According to the DVD commentary, this whole episode was a Take That! against people in real life who actually did think it was cruelty to animals to have Mojo get the crap kicked out of him every few episodes.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_6a7e6314	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_6a7e6314	comment	Thor: Ragnarok: The way Loki attempts to justify his crimes in the In-Universe play he wrote: "I just couldn't help myself. I'm a trickster!" Thor contests it later in the movie when he notes that Loki could both be who he is (the God of Mischief) and change for the better.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_6ac55ec7	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_6ac55ec7	comment	The most infamous example would have to be the Paladin class in Dungeons & Dragons, holy warriors who were required to be Lawful Good. So many players - many of whom were perfectly capable of playing non-paladin Lawful Good characters as reasonable individuals - felt that the only acceptable characterization for a paladin was the aggressively evangelistic Knight Templar whose only possible reaction to any situation was to demand everyone share his beliefs and kill anyone who didn't immediately fall in line, so that the phrase "Lawful Stupid" was coined to describe the class as a whole. The 4th Edition of D&D removed the alignment restriction, but many players familiar with earlier editions still act that way, because "that's just how paladins are." Not helped by the source books openly encouraging players to operate this way in earlier editions: other lawful good characters are just required to respect any oaths or promises they make during play, but Paladins start with a pre-written set of oaths, written by the Game Master from the perspective of a bellicose and wrathful god, which they must enforce to the utmost of their ability or lose their powers outright and be reduced from one of the more powerful combat classes to a weaker version of a fighter (fighter already being the least powerful class in the game). Essentially, Appeal To Inherent Nature was an intentionally-added class feature.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_6e1d5f36	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_6e1d5f36	comment	When Aeryn in Farscape says that John Crichton is obsessed with sex, he says, "I'm a guy!"
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_701f0ece	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_701f0ece	comment	The God Hand of Berserk use this to convince Griffith to make a Deal with the Devil. Using illusion and metaphor, they convince him that he's been stepping over the corpses of his followers to get what he wants all along, and that it is in fact in his nature to do so.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_73d7930f	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_73d7930f	comment	Summarized quite nicely in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine by the 217th Rule of Acquisition: "You can't free a fish from water."
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_7668653b	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_7668653b	comment	Used in the Extended Cut ending of Mass Effect 3, whereupon Shepard argues against the logic that the Catalyst chose to solve the problem of the Robot War by building robots that specifically start Robot Wars. The Catalyst refutes this statement by saying that its creations are only doing what they were programmed to do, and thus are not truly interested in war. Of course, seeing as they are his creations, the Catalyst is basically saying that the war occurs because organic civilizations refuse to sit back and allow themselves to be annihilated. Shepard can call him out on this. But the Catalyst has a justification to being called out on, as well: his logic is that his machines aren't actually killing organics, they're preserving organics by grinding them into goo and preserving them in machine form, so their civilizations can live on in the form of knowledge. So, the Catalyst argues, it's not hypocritical to prevent synthetics from killing organics using these methods because he doesn't violate his own principle: he preserves organics, which, to him, isn't quite the same thing. It's rather poignant that Shepard can convince a Reaper that they are the same thing. It shuts down when it realizes it is nothing more than a twisted mass grave.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_817acecf	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_817acecf	comment	Fables: Mr North (Anthropomorphic Personification of the North Wind,) is loathed by his son Bigby for abandoning his mother and causing her to die of a broken heart, to which Mr North replies that it is in the nature of winds to change direction. A generally very nice goblin named Mr Brump drunkenly eats a sentient squirrel and is put on trial for murder, during which his lawyer produces the scorpion (from "the scorpion and the frog" story under folklore below,) as a defence witness, and argues that it is in the nature of goblins to thoughtlessly devour any meat they can, regardless of who or what the meat comes from. In both these cases their interlocutors call bullshit; Bigby argues that Mr North may be no different from a normal fickle deadbeat and is just using his "nature" to make himself feel better, but even if Mr North is right, any entity with so little control over himself that he can't take responsibility for his own actions is a dangerous monster that should be put down anyway. Mr Brump's argument gets rejected by the judge in light of the fact that Brump is a fully sentient being who is thus responsible for his own actions, though in private the judge mused that his reason for condemning Brump had as much to do with setting a dangerous precedent that excused murder as Brump's culpability in that particular instance. A more minor example of a character excusing his own dubious behaviour in this way is Prince Charming and his perennial lack of fidelity, though by the time of the series it's such common knowledge that he can't sustain a relationship that hardly anyone bothers to call him out on it any more.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_86ac9c99	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_86ac9c99	comment	Not helped by the source books openly encouraging players to operate this way in earlier editions: other lawful good characters are just required to respect any oaths or promises they make during play, but Paladins start with a pre-written set of oaths, written by the Game Master from the perspective of a bellicose and wrathful god, which they must enforce to the utmost of their ability or lose their powers outright and be reduced from one of the more powerful combat classes to a weaker version of a fighter (fighter already being the least powerful class in the game). Essentially, Appeal To Inherent Nature was an intentionally-added class feature.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_90c73dda	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_90c73dda	comment	Animorphs: A favorite tactic of the Yeerks to silence people who protest against their parasitic enslavement of any alien race they come across is to claim that they evolved as parasites and are just doing what parasites do. Aftran 492 compares it to human predation of cows and pigs, but the only person she manages to convince is Cassie.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_9ce851a3	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_9ce851a3	comment	The general aesop of Malcolm in the Middle, that "Life is unfair", is really only possible because of the fallacy that nothing can be done about the way people are. The sub-Aesop is that there will always be authority figures in your lives that are unfair, and there's nothing you can do about it...nor should you, because that's just who they are. This, of course, means that the authority figures on this show can behave like jerks and use this justification as an excuse to avoid having to change their behavior; after all, it is in authority figure's nature to be unfair, so they are not to be subject to criticism when they behave so. (Also, when Malcolm calls out the various adults on using this excuse, the show wants us to think Malcolm is being an Emo Teen.)
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_a7c9f8e9	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_a7c9f8e9	comment	Thoroughly mocked in Legend of the Five Rings. While this is a setting based on traditional Japanese ideals of cosmology (and thus, Advantages and Disadvantages tend to run in family lines), the fact that this isn't overall true causes a lot of unneeded misery in setting, since a lot of samurai believe it. For example, the great sage Shinsei told the founder of what would become the Scorpion Clan the folktale of the scorpion and the frog... except he changed the ending. When the frog asks why the scorpion stung the frog in the middle of a river, drowning them both, the scorpion replied "Little frog, I can swim." And indeed, the Clan as a whole is untrustworthy and dishonorable... as is their purpose, since their explicit title is "Underhand of the Emperor", the people who do the things Bushido prevents. Individual Scorpions are trained specifically how to spin this logical fallacy to their advantage; since everyone expects a Scorpion to be untrustworthy, they can lie by telling the truth.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_a825da3e	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_a825da3e	comment	This is one of the aspects of Green mana in Magic: The Gathering, due to how it is inspired by nature and its creatures, many of them being bound by instincts they did not choose to be born with; applied to sentient beings, however, it may cause problems for the color when it comes to take responsibility or holding others responsible for their actions.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_bfcfaed0	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_bfcfaed0	comment	Natural Born Killers provides an alternate rendition of the below entry:
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_c03c2b44	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_c03c2b44	comment	In Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, Calypso justifies her failure to meet Davey Jones again after ten years with "It's my nature". She then points out that her flighty, tempestuous nature as a sea-goddess is the reason he'd loved her in the first place, so expecting her to behave otherwise for that love's sake is hypocritical.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_cd1550c5	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_cd1550c5	comment	In The Dark Tower series (the book Wizard and Glass), Eddie uses a combination of Appeal to Audacity and Logic Bomb to disable a malevolent AI with silly and nonsensical riddles. Roland, a very serious and straightforward Straight Man who had previously derided this tactic, is forced to apologize. Eddie waves it away saying that "you can't help your nature."
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d5c2a7a3	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d5c2a7a3	comment	One of the shifts in Garrett's character between the original Thief trilogy and the 2014 reboot is that, whereas in the original he needed to take burglary jobs to cover rent and other living expenses, Reboot!Garrett steals things because "It's what I do." Yahtzee Croshaw's review of the reboot pointed out that this removed a lot of the complexity from the character, countering, "No, it is what you are currently doing!"
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d6f9b009	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d6f9b009	comment	The Bolt Chronicles: Subverted in "The Coyote." Title character Charlie, initially seen as an untrustworthy trickster, tells Bolt that he spared the dog's life by going against his natural instincts.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d7289929	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d7289929	comment	In issue #3 of IDW's Godzilla: Kingdom of Monsters series, the No Celebrities Were Harmed version of Lady Gaga said that humanity shouldn't hold it against giant monsters for rampaging and destroying cities; it's just what they do, and it would be wrong to kill them for it.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d7c4626a	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_d7c4626a	comment	This trope is cited numerous times in The Sandman (1989). A good number of the series' deities subscribe to this, particularly the Anthropomorphic Personifications, since it's implied that they might not have much identity beyond their jobs. Or do they? This turns up in "A Dream of Thousand Cats", as an older cat expresses doubt that the utopia (which requires a thousand cats to literally dream it into existence) promised will ever happen as it's not in cats' nature to do what they're told.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_e26331c5	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_e26331c5	comment	In Prince Charming, Plagg warns Adrien that, even though he truly doesn't mean Adrien any harm, he is the spirit of Misfortune and it is not in his nature to give gifts without a double edge. Calling on his power to strip Adrien of his blessing is going to come with some costs, no matter what.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_ea9a97e1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_ea9a97e1	comment	The Crying Game includes a character telling "The Scorpion and the Frog" to discuss this topic, and ultimately tries to use it to convince his interlocutor that he's not a bad person.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_eded6020	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_eded6020	comment	In The Lorax (2012), the Once-ler has a Villain Song with the line "How ba-a-a-ad can I be? I'm just doing what comes naturally."
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_ee221a4e	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_ee221a4e	comment	The Transformers (Marvel): Bludgeon uses this argument to strand the Autobots on a dying Cybertron, then go find a nice peaceful planet, and slaughter every living thing on it. After all, the Decepticons are conquerors. Why fight what's in their energon?
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_f0841a69	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_f0841a69	comment	In the ITV series Primeval, a character who has been raising an orphaned sabretooth since it was a cub insists that the now fully grown cat would never attack her. Which, naturally, it does. This is Truth in Television for the caretakers of dangerous wild animals.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_fa543a72	comment	Dan Olson of Folding Ideas refers to a version of this as the "Thermian argument", a common line of discussion in pop culture where people excuse incredibly offensive subject matter in Speculative Fiction by declaring that that's the way the story's world works. The name of the argument comes from the fact that it treats completely invented material as an unchanging real world. As he points out, it's absurd to claim that anything in a story has to be a given way, because barring pure historical fiction or biography, the worlds of stories are entirely invented by their writers. He gives the example of trying to excuse criticism of a female character wearing Stripperiffic armor by saying that it's the armor of her tribe, when said tribal culture is entirely an invention of the author.
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Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_fc28ae4e	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_fc28ae4e	comment	In Carlito's Way, Carlito is confronted by his girlfriend Gail about leaving the criminal life behind, saying the only way that road ends is with her crying in an emergency room as Carlito dies. Carlito defends his adherence to the "code of the street" even as he goes clean by means of this fallacy, saying something to the effect of, "That's who I am. I can't change." It does not work out well.
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Carlito's Way	hasFeature	Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_fc28ae4e
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_fda9c8b	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Appeal to Inherent Nature / int_fda9c8b	comment	Mary in Downton Abbey, who argues that she's inherently contrary and that it would be against her character to want to marry anyone who anyone else wanted her to marry.
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The following is a list of statements referring to the current page from other pages.

Appeal to Inherent Nature	processingCategory2	Cynicism Tropes
Appeal to Inherent Nature	processingCategory2	Logical Fallacies
For His Own Sake (Fanfic) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
The Bolt Chronicles (Fanfic) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
What If Freeza Turned Good? (Fanfic) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
What If Frieza Turned Good? (Fanfic) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Gladiator / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Natural Born Killers / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Thor: Ragnarok / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Jingo / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Magic 2.0 / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Primeval / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Legend of the Five Rings (Tabletop Game) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Octopath Traveler: Champions of the Continent (Video Game) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Critical Role: Campaign Two (Web Video) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
The Emoji Movie / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
The Lorax / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
The Lorax (2012) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature
Avengers Undercover (Comic Book) / int_33f18ad1	type	Appeal to Inherent Nature

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