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Casual-Competitive Conflict
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The endless debates between Tournament Play and Casual Play, particularly in the Fighting Game Community (though it can and does spread to other genres), guaranteed to split apart every game fandom in existence. A large cause of Flame Wars and, unfortunately, death threats by a Vocal Minority. The Hardcore player is the Spirited Competitor — plays for the sake of a challenge and finds deeper immersion how far they can hone their skill. The Casual player is the Cavalier Competitor — treats it like the game it is, not investing themselves too deeply in it and not devoting huge amounts of time into it. There are some valid reasons to get upset about a game pandering to one end or another, despite it often going too far. Tournament Play thriving can cause a massive gap between player skill levels depending on how much time one is willing and able to spend, which can alienate a lot of players. There are also the subsets of "Stop Having Fun" Guys and Scrubs, who attack players even on their side of the debate if they don't choose the highest-tiered legal settings. However, Casual Play is also dangerous because gross imbalances are ignored due to the assertion that Character Tiers don't exist and pandering to this area leads to shallow gameplay that stagnates quickly and the game having an overall shorter shelf life. This can also spread into games which has story/backstory in them, including Licensed Games based on a well-established non-video game franchise, creating tension between those who play it for the game and those who play it for the world. Star Trek Online, for example, has arguments between hard-core trekkies who wish the Starfleet missions featured more diplomacy and exploration and less pew-pew, and gamers who point out that it's hard to make that kind of game in an MMO environment. Note that this doesn't just apply to video games — anything with both a casual and competitive scene, such as sports or tabletop games, can also spiral into this debate. Debates on this topic can get ugly, fast, especially in cases where the creator of the game takes sides. On This Very Wiki, many pages (especially in the YMMV tab) have to be policed closely because those joining the debate on either side tend to degenerate in the 1% who'd love to start a fight. Compare the Console Wars, which usually overlaps in the form of "Casual Nintendo vs. Competitive Everyone Else"; and Technician Versus Performer, a conflict over similar reasons. For other, sometimes more nuanced divisions, especially those showing up in roleplaying and adventure games, see Player Archetypes. |
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In Star Trek Online, do you strive to boldly go where no man has gone before, immersing yourself in the interstellar world you've grown to love, or do you want to improve the destructive potential of your starship? | |
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To go to the other side of the trope we have the video game Demigod. Released in 2009, it was the first commercially-produced MOBA; it was created by Chris Taylor (Total Annihilation, Dungeon Siege, Supreme Commander) and had a fair bit of hype behind it. However, to supply its 5-on-5 team brawls, it provided... eight characters. Part of the charm of a MOBA is the large cast, decreasing the likelihood of Mirror Matches. Demigod not only had Mirror Matches, it forced them. Though it is still available on Steam over a decade after its release, what it wanted to be was League of Legends... And it failed at its goal miserably. | |
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Fire Emblem is an interesting example of this kind of debate becoming legendary... for a game's single-player campaign. Fire Emblem is a series that is both a Nintendo Hard strategy game with efficient completion of battles requiring a lot of planning and intricate knowledge of game mechanics, and one that encourages the player to treat their soldiers as people rather than expendable pawns, by giving each one a portrait, name, personality and Relationship Values with other soldiers. This has resulted in two different communities forming around how to judge units: one by their gameplay potential and the other by their character, and the two very rarely match up. Many characters who fall on the low end of the Character Tiers have likeable personalities that earn them large fanbases, when leads to a lot of conflict when their fans get involved in tier list debates. Not helping matters is that the hardcore community's hatred of Low-Tier Letdowns can get quite vicious at times, a common joke is to intentionally let them die in battle or kill them instead of recruiting them, which can come across as Dude, Not Funny! for some. (Units defeated in battle in FE actually die in most cases) Meanwhile, many casual fans of these characters don't fully understand the gameplay and will make misleading arguments for their usefulness, which is a Berserk Button for hardcore players. | |
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Marvel vs. Capcom is notorious for having one of the most lopsided tier lists in any game franchise. In the first game, Red Venom (aka "Carnage") was the unquestioned god-tier, and in the third game, Wolverine (with Akuma assist) and Phoenix dominated the original game while Morrigan (with Doom assist), Zero and Vergil are considered the reigning kings of the roster. But the crowning example is Marvel vs. Capcom 2, where in a title with 56 playable characters, only four (Cable, Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel, in various combinations) are considered tournament-viable. Good assist characters like Psylocke, Cyclops, Doctor Doom, Strider Hiryu, and Captain Commando notwithstanding, those four characters have dominated the MvC2 scene for more than ten years. | |
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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: Hero's moveset is controversial due to its randomness: His Command Selection gives him access to a random selection of spells, with a few of them being particularly useful. On top of that, he can KO early if he gets a random Critical Hit on a smash attack. South Australia banned him on August 15th, 2019, arguing that he's too anti-competitive. This has also been controversial: some prominent smashers agree with it, while others argue that the character has significant counterplay and/or that it's just too early to ban him about two weeks after his release. The consensus now seems to be that, for a character whose concept revolves around RNG, Hero is balanced, and while he can and has pulled off some serious upsets thanks to lucky RNG rolls, he also has serious issue with range and safety, requires absurdly quick reflexes, and is effectively useless if he runs out of mana, all of which have, for the most part, balanced out the insane and ridiculous shit that he has sometimes pulled off. | |
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Smogon has the stated goal of minimizing the effects of luck on matches. While they take little issue with Critical Hits, Paralysis, and other similar aspects of the game (though many players in such circles get annoyed when they come into play, even if it's in their favor), they have banned Abilities like Moody and moves like Double Team due to how they provide nothing skill-based to a game, instead merely introducing luck for its own sake. Many Smogon members believe that evasion-boosting isn't nearly as powerful as it once was but are still against it being unbanned for this reason. | |
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One of the most hotly-debated aspects of Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite was the company's stated goal of making it accessible to new players, using the same reasoning as the above-mentioned Persona 4 Arena entry. Critics argued that simplifying the gameplay, removing assists, adding a Persona 4 Arena-style Auto Combo system and focusing mostly on characters from the popular movie series was a slap in the face to the rich history of the Vs. series, while casual gamers (and the company) argued that of course Capcom would want to try and entice new players when dealing with a license with as much broad appeal as Marvel. | |
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The purpose behind Project M is that Super Smash Bros. Brawl had several balance issues, which it was dedicated to fixing to create a more lasting game. Being a Game Mod, it was afforded more time to do so. | |
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In Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, Kratos, who was intended to be an easy-to-use Skill Gate Character, instead turned out to be too easy to use. Rapidly mashing the Square button would build up his AP Meter at obscene speeds, leading to a quick Finishing Move. Even though most other Game Breakers were patched in later balance updates, Kratos remained completely untouched, even when official support of the game had ended. Even casual players had gotten sick of seeing this abused in every online match. | |
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Elden Ring has the Spirit Ash system, where you can summon notable enemies (and a few minor bosses, like Black Knife Tiche, the Mimic Tear, and Bloodhound Knight Floh) to help you fight. They're so useful in killing tough foes (or at least distracting them so you can wail on them unimpeded) that the old guard carried over from the Souls series still complains about them even though you can't use them in PvP (with the current exception of one colosseum). | |
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In Street Fighter V, characters like R. Mika, Balrog, Cammy and especially Abigail, are often derided by the player base for being far too rewarding for how easy they are to play. Each of these characters at one point had a run in the top tiers, but even after being heavily nerfed (some to low tier status), there are still massive complaints. Sometimes from high level players who lost a game after making ONE mistake or bad guess and sometimes from low level players who just don't know how you're supposed to win against these characters without using their direct counters or mastering difficult, high level play mechanics. | |
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Final Fantasy XIV: Speed running dungeons has the community heavily divided. Speed runs are done by having the tank pulling large amounts of enemies at once so that the DPS classes can nuke them with AOE spam and kill everything faster rather than engaging groups one at a time. Engaging dungeons with large pulls is risky because the party can wipe if the tank is not strong enough to survive the dog pile or the healer can't heal enough HP to the tank. Players who are in favor of the speed runs say the speed run tactic is fine and no one should tell them how to play whereas the people against the speed run don't like speeding through everything while also arguing that new players would get screwed over since they won't be prepared for a speed run. If there's fighting within the party over a screwed up speed run, the blame will be placed on everyone and some may just leave the party. Conflict of play styles is a constant source of grief and drama among parties where a player not playing in a certain way can annoy others. You have those who feel people should be able to play the way they want to regardless on what others tell them while the other side feels that not cooperating with the party (as in not following instructions or not using abilities) will either make runs take longer or can cause the party to wipe and redo the boss fight or section of the dungeon. |
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Mario Kart DS introduced "snaking," in which one perpetually drift-boosts even when not cornering. Proponents say it's part of the game and a valid tactic; detractors say it makes the game a boring test of who can mash buttons faster instead of a contest of skill and knowledge of the karts and tracks. | |
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Mario Kart 8 has frog/fire hopping, a tactic where the player constantly hops their kart after a boost, so the effect lasts longer, which is exploiting a glitch. Like with snaking, the fan base is heavily divided over whether the tactic is either fair or cheap and boring. All the time trial records are held by players who abused the technique. | |
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Mario Party goes through a similar debate from Mario Kart where people argue whether skill should be a factor in who wins the game or if luck is the entire point of the game so that anyone can win. Mario Party 9 caused a major divide among fans due to the game easing up on luck based games and events. | |
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PAYDAY 2 has two groups that generally butt heads: Stealth heisters and Loud heisters. Debate over which is better, more efficient, or fun tend to devolve quickly. | |
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Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite has solid gameplay, but its presentation is said to be very lacking by many people, especially when compared to Marvel vs. Capcom 3, ranging from a lackluster roster, to more "cinematic" graphics (instead of the stylized comic-book-like graphics in the previous game), to the subpar and cheesy story mode. Ironically, they at first looked like they'd cater more to the casual crowd with the premise of a story mode (when previous games had none) and the tweaking of the gameplay to be simpler, as well as taking inspiration from Marvel Cinematic Universe to appeal to a larger crowd. The development of the game apparently ran on a very tight budget, and some of the fans were also rather cautious when the game was announced only 8-9 months before it was released (which implies that they also had a tight development schedule). | |
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Heroes of the Storm had a major issue with this, because it had such a wide amount of broken and top tier units, that it caused division within the community during the peak of the game's life. Units like Li-Ming, Kael-Thas, Nova, and Genji dominated the meta so much, that there were little ways of properly countering them, even after being nerfed they were capable of clearing enemy teams out with ease. This made it difficult to properly play the game, and many casual players couldn't properly improve due to how many broken units came out that prevented a player from learning. Even after nerfs came out for many of the top tier and dominating units, because the characters core abilities were part of the problem, they remained thorns in players sides despite people who played them often claiming they were "balanced" and could be countered. | |
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Mario Kart gets the debates of "skill versus luck" for nearly every single installment, mostly due to the Spiny Shell item that targets people in first place and nobody else unless other people got in the way of the item. Since the types of items that appear are influenced by RNG and the position of the player when they get the item, the debate takes over from there. It reached a critical mass among racing game fans (in general, not specifically Mario Kart fans) with the release of Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, a kart racer aimed at the hardcore and the competitive in mind, where while there is still luck with items, their effects are minimal compared to driving skill and knowledge of the courses. Fans of Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed do not get along with Mario Kart fans at all. | |
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Capcom vs. SNK 2 was later given an Updated Re Release that introduced the "EO" mechanic, which was designed to make it easier to perform special moves. New players and casual fans were keen on the idea, while members of the FGC complained that it wrecked the gameplay balance and removed most of the skill and strategy. | |
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In Tekken 4, everyone came to hate and fear four letters: JFLS. (Just Frame Laser Scraper, an attack possessed by Jin Kazama that was near-instantaneous, safe, spammable, and came with variations which forced you to guess.) At the height of T4's popularity, there was an organized movement to either ban Jin or go back to Tekken Tag Tournament as the marquee Tekken game. More than a decade later, T4 has been partially Vindicated by History because dedicated players have found new techniques that beat JFLS and open a new and rewarding metagame. To this day, it has a few dedicated players that not only consider it a great game, but one of the best in the series that was judged too harshly, too quickly. | |
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Notably Averted for Mortal Kombat, where both competitive and casual players both complained about the bloated roster of characters. Starting with Mortal Kombat 3, the franchise began adding several characters that (while having their own fans), are considered rather "Meh" by the rest of the fanbase, such as Stryker and Rain. The next few games and spin-offs added even more easily-forgotten characters like Hsu Hao, Kobra, Mavado and Shujinko, and was capped off by Mortal Kombat: Armageddon, which included the entire roster (and several new characters) as part of a Grand Finale for the entire saga. When the series was rebooted with Mortal Kombat 9, it attempted a course-correction that included trimming the cast down to fan-favorites and a few surprises, and then Mortal Kombat X included a new generation of characters who also became memorable, striking just the right balance for most of the fandom—although a few die-hard fans will still ask for the return of their favorites, such as Mileena or even the obscure Tanya. | |
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In Overwatch, picking certain characters in competitive matches, mostly from the Defense class, can lead to a lot of flak, including rude comments in chat, accusations of attempting to throw the game, arguments that disturb team coordination, or the offended player throwing the game themselves, due to these characters being viewed as underpowered, having little synergy with others or used often by unskilled players. Most often affected heroes are Hanzo, Torbjörn, Widowmaker, Sombra and Symmetra, but sometimes Genji, Mei and even D.Va players get this treatment. Blizzard has recently introduced a revamped report system to combat this phenomenon. | |
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In Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, despite there being a wide variety of characters, weapons, powers, and equipment to use, only specific combinations are considered "viable." Before a match starts, everyone on your team can see what character and loadout (except powers) you've chosen, and if you don't fit their ideal, will either leave or kick you from the game. ME3MP uses a Freemium model (equipment is given randomly through "packs", and each pack takes either hours of gameplay or real money), so players become extremely touchy about wasting their time and in-game money on bad players. However, this attitude especially sucks when you're a new player; how are you supposed to know this new weapon or character you spent days to earn is one of the "bad" ones? And how are you supposed to know why everyone keeps quitting your game and kicking you? This attitude was even worse before later patches, as searching for a Gold match would infallibly lead a player into a Firebase White/Geth match. note Firebase White had a phenomenal camping spot that the Geth only had limited options for attacking, allowing players to easily funnel them and pick them off even at the highest difficulty. Both the map and the Geth were later redesigned to prevent this. | |
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Some members of the competitive scene criticized Persona 4: Arena for having an Auto Combo system that was designed to appeal to new players. In response, the developers argued that since Persona is a popular franchise that has many fans who aren't necessarily members of the FGC, it only made sense to try and make the fighting game Spin-Off as accessible as possible. | |
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In a good illustration of this divide, many members of the Fighting Game Community tend to look down on licensed games like the Dragon Ball Z: Budokai and Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi series for being overly simplistic and too focused on gimmicks and beam struggles. When a more serious, competitively-oriented Dragon Ball game was attempted with Super Dragon Ball Z, it was vastly outsold by the aforementioned Budokai and Tenkaichi series, which held more appeal to casual players. It would be over a decade before someone made another attempt at an FGC-oriented Dragon Ball game with Dragon Ball FighterZ. | |
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Street Fighter III completely overhauled the gameplay of its predecessors, putting heavy emphasis on parrying and counter attacks. The new gameplay, in addition to almost all the old cast being Put on a Bus note the sole exceptions being Ryu and Ken, and in later installments, Akuma and Chun-Li resulted in the casual crowd overwhelmingly rejecting the game. The competitive crowd, on the other hand, holds the series (particularly 3rd Strike) as the silver standard for fighting games (only Super Turbo holds the golden status), but it took a long time to get there. | |
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Super Smash Bros. Brawl in specific had random tripping, which couldn't be disabled or worked around (unlike items and stage hazards) and left many a player highly vulnerable, turning many matches completely around. By the time of the fourth game, the hardcore view was by and large the predominant one and random tripping was completely gone. | |
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In the Super Smash Bros. Melee community, the "No items, Fox only, Final Destination" meme reflects players' annoyance at the fact that, in a game full of wildly diverse characters and stages, only a few are typically chosen. In this case, items and most stages are disqualified due to Luck being too much of a factor (see that folder). The 3DS/Wii U game attempts to appeal to both groups by having two online modes; "For Fun" is for casual players and allows everything, and "For Glory" is for the hardcore crowd as it enforces "No items, Final Destination" rules. Reactions to this feature remain mixed, particularly among the tournament crowd it was intended to appeal to. This is mostly because Final Destination isn't actually as balanced as the above meme would have you believe, a stereotype the Melee community has failed to shake off for over half a decade.In particularProjectile users have a large advantage since there's nowhere to go to dodge, and Little Mac having the best ground play has made the online community shift almost entirely to using just him - more so than Fox was in Melee. In addition, the "For Fun" mode only allows for 2-minute timed matches with no stock (as opposed to For Glory where you can play two-stock battles with a longer, more appropriate time limit), to the annoyance of players who like items but prefer to play with stock. In short, the rules for both modes are too rigid. Ultimate later abandoned the system, simply allowing players to choose their own rule preferences and taking them into account during online matchmaking. The following game, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, further tries to address the Abridged Arena Array: all stages now have a "Battlefield" version (one main platform and a few secondary ones above it) in addition to "Final Destination" (just one flat platform), which many players feel is more balanced. Players also now have the option to turn off stage hazards on the normal stages, allowing a wider variety of environments without random luck being a factor. |
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This has been a big issue with Street Fighter V with the game's initial release containing mostly only features for the competitive scene, with features such as challenges and Story Mode delayed to a month or more after launch. The consensus seems to be that the game was probably rushed up a month so that the Capcom Pro Tour could start in February. Additionally, most of the game's marketing is focused on tournaments and competition. | |
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Dragon Ball Fighter Z has become infamous for the question "How many Gokus and Vegetas can we put in one game"? To wit, the game launched with both characters in Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue forms and later added Base forms for both, as well as two different fusions: Vegito and Gogeta, the latter of which also has a Super Saiyan 4 variant. It also included Goku Blacknote Who is technically a different character, but more on that in a moment., and later Bardock (who is Goku's identically-looking father), Kid Goku from Dragon Ball GT for good measure and Ultra Instinct Goku, bringing the total up to 7 Gokus, 3 Vegetas and three fusions of both. But it doesn't end there, because several other characters have alternates as well, such as Gohan (Teen and Adult forms), Broly (Z and Super forms), Buu (Majin and Kid forms) and Android 21 (true form and labcoat). And furthermore, there are several characters who are not only playable, but appear as either an Assist Character or Fusion half for another character (Gohan appears as both his Teen and Adult selves, and as "Great Saiyaman" for Videl; Android 17 is also an assist for Android 18; Trunks's younger counterpart is half of Gotenks; and Zamasu is both an assist for Goku Black and fuses into Fused Zamasu with him). Fans of the characters in question may enjoy their inclusion, but competitive players have repeatedly expressed dissatisfaction with new versions of the same characters being released ad nauseam. | |
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In Pokémon, Digimon or any Mons series: do you just go nuts raising adorable superpowered critters, or do you strive To Be a Master? | |
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Tekken began having this problem starting with Tekken 5, which tried to recapture the glory of Tekken Tag Tournament by including almost every character that appeared in that game. Later, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (by virtue of being a Dream Match Game like its predecessor) included every single character ever added to the roster (including bosses and excepting Guest Fighters) adding up sixty-two, and this was criticized by the competitive community for making the game too complicated due to the ridiculous number of possible team compositions and matchups. Tekken 7 originally launched with fewer characters in arcades, but added more and more with the console release, as well as DLC, with more than a handful being Guest Fighters who were completely new to Tekken (or even fighting games in general). Yet again, complaints began that the roster was becoming too bloated, with a roster of over 40 by 2019. | |
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DanceDanceRevolution, as well as similar games Pump It Up and In the Groove, have the use of the bar on the arcade cabinet, originally designed for players to have something to hold onto if they fall over and prevent the resulting lawsuits. Many top-level players use the bar to improve their balance and control of their body; it's unheard of for players who play boss songs and go for top scores to not use the bar. Detractors find it boring to watch and do with some deriding it as taking away skill from the game, and point out that on console versions, you don't have a bar to rely on unless you either invest in expensive specialized home pads that come with bars or use a chair of a very specific height. Meanwhile, bar users want every advantage they can get, and official tournaments for all three games permit the use of the bar. | |
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In Overwatch, characters such as Bastion, Reaper and D.Va were despised shortly after release, due to how easy it was for them to get tremendous value out of their abilities , with Bastion and Reaper able to shred even high health characters in seconds and D.Va able to completely nullify many offensive abilities—each of which only require ONE button to do. None of them were particularly liked even in later seasons, but both fan perceptions and balance patches have remedied most complaints. However, the same is not true of Mercy, considered by many to be the easiest character in the game; she was launched with the Ultimate ability to Resurrect any teammates who died in her vicinity, which was by far the most reviled ability in the game. It took several more patches (including the demotion of Resurrect to a regular, single-target ability) for the hate to subside, but it still has not died and complaints that Mercy is a "no-brain" hero continue to this day. The absolute pinnacle of the hatred, however, is Brigitte...easily the most divisive character in the game who (depending on whom you ask) is either a fun support that can finally counter DPS heroes or the worst thing to ever happen to the game. Most defenders of these characters will argue that they are immensely simple to defeat by getting better at the game, but that argument will often be ignored or (if the character happens to be meta at the time) outright scoffed at. | |
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Magic: The Gathering players mostly subscribe to the hardcore view, but the multiplayer Commander format has a quirk in that conceding at certain times can screw over an opponent by e.g. denying them lifelink triggers. Various house rules exist to address this, most notably "you can only concede at sorcery speed". | |
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Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer: As mentioned above in Complacent Gaming Syndrome, the Freemium model of the game (not to mention the punishingly unfair difficulty) quickly grooms players into elitists that don't take kindly to wasting their time. By the time a player starts getting into Gold or Platinum difficulty (the only profitable way to earn in-game currency), they're conditioned to not tolerate mistakes of any sort. People who play for fun are either complete newbs (meaning they should stick to Silver, or better yet Bronze) or over-powered Super-veterans (who already have all the good stuff and thus both have more room for mistakes and less need for money), but there's a long period of difficult gameplay before the former becomes the latter. To get a picture of how annoying these player types can be working together, imagine reckless idiots combined with elitists; the former constantly get themselves killed or hinder objectives, the latter refuses to help a team they feel are "beneath" them, and both Rage Quit the match entirely, leaving anyone else to fend for themselves. | |
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Star Craft II had the well-known "Archon Toilet" tactic where they used the Protoss Mothership's Vortex ability to trap enemies and then sent in Archons after the enemies. Since Archons dealt Splash Damage, all the units emerge at the same time and are overlapping each other, this allowed the Archons to utterly destroy an army in mere seconds. Players soon started to complain that the ability to destroy an army nigh instantly was a Game-Breaker. On the other hand, the tactic's proponents counter that it's resource intensive, difficult to pull off and that it's a valid way to counter a Zerg Rush (indeed, it's often used against the Zerg). Opponents fired back claiming that the tactic turned Protoss-vs-Zerg matchups into a boring coin toss where victory more or less depended on if the Protoss player successfully pulled off the "Archon Toilet". Things further heated up when it was reported players went "gg" once they were on the receiving end of a successfully executed Archon Toilet, even if they had the resources and capability to rebuild their army. In the end, Blizzard took the negative side by giving all units that emerge from the vortex Mercy Invincibility and when that failed to properly Nerf the tactic, they replaced the Vortex ability with the Time Warp ability in Heart of the Swarm. | |
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Dead or Alive has gone through this pretty much from the moment it was created, thanks to the series' emphasis on well-endowed female fighters kicking butt in a variety of showy costumes. On the one hand, the game's reputation as a "jiggle fighter" has scared off some potential players who assume it's nothing more than virtual mud-wrestlingnote An impression not helped by the DOA Xtreme sub-series, which does away with the fighting in favor of Les Yay-laden Dating Sim antics, but on the other hand some fans focus on its counter-heavy gameplay (which some consider a Spiritual Successor to the Virtua Fighter series) and either don't care about the Fanservice or appreciate the developers' honesty about indulging in it. When Tecmo Koei announced they were going to tone down the fanservice in Dead or Alive 5, pressure from the player base caused them to relent; and Dead or Alive 6 suffered a Flip-Flop of God on the subject that led to the game having an Uncertain Audience and becoming Overshadowed by Controversy. Similarly, a push among the competitive DOA scene to ban skimpier costumes led to fights between the two sides: hardcore players said it was about preventing Distracted by the Sexy and casuals accused the hardcores of trying to whitewash the game's image just to fish for the wider FGC's respect. | |
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Virtua Fighter, like any game, has character tiers, but proponents of the series often point out that unlike other titles, every character is tournament viable. There are two things worthy to note, though. First, the VF series is not known for having a large cast, so balancing them is easier than in a game like, say, Marvel vs. Capcom 2. The second is that although VF is possibly the most respected fighting franchise in existence, it has never enjoyed mainstream appeal. Some gamers have speculated that the lack of a clear god-tier is the cause, with reasons ranging from the series thus having no "villain" to root against (like Magneto/Storm/Sentinel in MvC2 or Fox in Melee) or an overpowered "easy road" to top-level competitive play (like Chun-Li in SFIII: Third Strike or Lars in Tekken 6). | |
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Soulcalibur V is often considered to have the best metagame in the Soul series but is rather blatantly unfinished everywhere else. The developers have admitted that only one-fourth of the intended game was finished due to Executive Meddling, so the mechanics had to get the most attention and the fastest, which has left some players crying foul as they would rather have had the attention placed on the story that the series was typically known for. | |
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The Guitar Hero and Rock Band fandoms are split between those who just think it's fun to play the electric guitar and fantasize about rock stardom and those who play for the leaderboards, aiming to hit every note perfect and enter Star Power at exactly the right points. | |
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Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U has Bayonetta, a character who was commonly criticized for being able to win tournaments with little effort on the part of the player, being able to rack up massive combos incredibly easily. There was a lot of discussion about banning her and bringing it up was a fantastic way to start an argument. She escaped a ban thanks to being significantly nerfed by a patch but was still considered overpowered. In EVO 2018, the game's farewell before it was replaced by Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, so many players picked Bayonetta that the audience started booing them; and when the final match became a Bayonetta vs. Bayonetta Mirror Match some of the crowd up and walked out. The finalists, in turn, said "screw you" and trolled the audience by stalling a match until a ref warned that they could both be disqualified if they didn't get on with it. | |
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This is an issue that has hit Splatoon, by far Nintendo's most competitively-tuned game. The problem some have is that its online multiplayer is peer-to-peer and is very vulnerable to lag or outright disconnections. While a competitive scene has developed almost everywhere it's sold, Japan remains the only country where Splatoon is taken seriously enough to have competitive events due to its lightning-fast Internet. Everywhere else, if it isn't Korea or Scandinavia, gets to deal with teleporting players, impossible kills, and the occasional total paralysis due to a hiccup in one's Internet connection. | |
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In Team Fortress 2, competitive players sometimes only accept one loadout per character as "the right way" to play a character, and any player using a weapon other than their favored three (or four) will get chewed out over chat or mic. | |
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Marvel vs. Capcom 2: Perhaps the very first example of this issue, MVC2 brought back every single character that had ever appeared in a Capcom vs. game, and added several new characters from both sides, and even completely original characters to boot. This resulted in a chaotic mess where only a dozen or so out of fifty-six characters were considered tournament viable, excepting teams with amazing synergy, with four being considered required for almost any competitive team. Its sequel, Marvel vs. Capcom 3, trimmed the roster considerably, resulting in a more comparatively balanced game, but one fans detracted for being far more "boring" as a result and constantly demanded that old favorites be added as DLC. Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite trimmed the roster even further, but this was more due to Executive Meddling by Disney, who wanted to exclude characters like the X-Men and Fantastic Four because of the movie rights to those characters being owned by 20th Century Fox. | |
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Has become something of an issue in newer Call of Duty releases, many of which give much more focus on the multiplayer side of things. Eventually, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions of Call of Duty: Black Ops III did not come with any sort of campaign mode at all. | |
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Critical Hits often have the potential to destroy an opponent who otherwise would have survived, especially since the metagame is fast-paced enough to where even the strongest are generally knocked out in two hits. | |
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In League of Legends, there are several characters who have been the bane of lower-level players for the duration of their existence, and of those, Garen and Lee Sin have been some of the most infamous, as well as illustrations of how the devs deal with pubstompers vs. high-level darlings. Garen has almost never been viable in high-level play for a lot of reasons: he has no hard CC or peeling ability, which makes him useless as a tank, falls off hard damage-wise past twenty minutes, has zero range or gap-closing ability, and really isn't that durable under any sort of sustained fire. In low-level play, however, he is a consistently strong choice due to his enormous early damage and lane-bullying abilities and passive Healing Factor, and the developers have said on numerous occasions that the buffs needed to make Garen viable in high-level play would poison the game for low-level players; on the one occasion where Garen actually was viable past Season 1, he was hated by players at all levels for being overtuned due to his generally awkward and outdated kit needing a massive numbers bloat just to be good. Lee Sin, on the other hand, is beloved by high-level players for his versatile design, ability to pull off many different roles, and smooth progression from early and mid-game bully to late-game jack-of-all-trades, while lower-level players see him as a scourge who does everything, does it well, and has no real weaknesses. In Lee Sin's case, the developers have stated on multiple occasions that he is simply too important in high-level play to touch unless he is legitimately problematic in that environment, and that any nerfs due to low-level complaints would trigger substantial backlash from high-level players, so the low-levels simply had to learn to deal. | |
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On Twitter, pro Smash player HugS asked Smash 4 players why some of them don't play Melee (the long-running gold standard of competitive Smash play). Many players responded that the extreme length of time that the game has been out means that getting anywhere close to competitive level would take months, if not years of investment (and that's with dedication and excellent local competition), and even if they did manage to do so, players also stated that the game had become too twitch-happy, meaning that they would hit a plateau in skill unless they developed lightning-fast reflexes (something not every player will be able to do, and has actually injured some players in the past). And finally, some said they didn't want to face an army of Fox McClouds. The pro-Melee side made accusations of Smash 4 players being lazy, cowardly, being ignorant of Melee's mechanics and ignoring the viability of low-execution mid-tiers. Let's just say the debate still rages on to this day. | |
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Non-video game example: The Amazing Race has a notable split in both competitors and fans over which tactics are okay to use. This in a large part focuses on things like the Yield and the U-Turn, game mechanics introduced in later seasons that allow one team to hinder another. Some see such things as perfectly legitimate to use since that's what the producers intended them for, while others feel that teams should run a clean game and try to outperform their opponents rather than sabotage each other. | |
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The Soul series got different accusations of falling to either extremes, depending on which entry you were speaking of. After the relatively obscure first title, Soulcalibur and Soulcalibur II were pretty balanced and beloved by both hardcore and casual fans alike. Then, Soulcalibur III came out for consoles only and had questionable game balance and content (such as Create-A-Fighter and an RPG-like challenge mode) that was strictly for casual fans, with the balancing issues (and well as several glitches and Game-Breaking Bugs) only fixed in the arcade-only revision. SCIV was further accused of being for casuals, especially considering the inclusion of guest fighters from Star Wars who were mechanically different from any other characters. Then, SCV came out and got the exact opposite treatment: mechanically, it's considered one of the best (if not the best) in the series, but its story mode is considered the absolute worst and it sorely lacks content that would interest anyone outside of the competitive scene. | |
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In Dota2, it is actually the competitive scene that is largely in favour of the RNG because it can be exploited to some degree (pseudorandom number distribution means a string of fails is followed by a near guaranteed success). | |
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Christian "IWillDominate" Rivera once received a yearlong ban from playing League of Legends competitively and had all his accounts permanently banned due to a lengthy and consistent history of extremely poor sportsmanship and verbal abuse towards other players. | |
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While Tetris games do have RNGs that determine the player's next pieces, it's largely never seen as a problem in competitive circles as a lucky permutation of tetrominoes will far from make up for poor stacking abilities. It helps that more modern games have tailored randomizers that bias towards more even piece distributionsnote In fact, the current Tetris Guideline calls for a randomizer that strings together permutations of the seven tetrominoes, ensuring that every wave of 7 pieces will have perfectly even piece distribution. so that a player is unlikely to go more than 10 pieces without an I-piece or end up with the dreaded flood of S- and Z-pieces. | |
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Chess leans heavily towards the hardcore view, to the point where not resigning in a hopeless position is considered impolite in high-level play. This makes sense, as chess has an Unstable Equilibrium and it's hard to come back if you fall too far behind. With that said, players at lower levels are often encouraged to play on in bad positions, as opposing blunders that get you back into the game are still common, and many players want to practice actually delivering checkmate after obtaining a winning position. | |
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In the Street Fighter II community, after Super Turbo HD Remix was released, the near-two-decade-old Super Turbo community lost its collective mind. Some liked the balance retweakings, updated graphics and music, easier command inputs, and other changes, and declared it the new ST tournament standard. Others proclaimed it The Antichrist of fighting games which ruined the scene forever because the "retweakings" were more like "rebreakings," the new art was too Animesque, the music sounded far different, and the new command inputs made stuff like the formerly Difficult, but Awesome Spinning Piledriver an instant Game-Breaker. For years, the ST community was at war with itself over which version would/should be played, with many players intentionally sabotaging the other game to promote their own. Few players dedicated time to play both, and the new players that HDR brought in quickly lost interest. For a time, both versions disappeared from the scene (aside from extremely dedicated tournaments). In the end, classic ST won, but it was a Pyrrhic Victory for all the damage it did to the ST scene. | |
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In Street Fighter, Ryu and Ken have consistently been the most selected characters throughout the entire series, Ken especially due to being easier to use and combo with. | |
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In April 2019, Yu-Gi-Oh! competitions implemented a hygiene rule, stating that players who show up to these competitions dirty, smelly, or otherwise likely to get people sick would be disqualified. Reactions to this rule has been divisive, with some people strongly in support of the rules and some others arguing that it has nothing to do with how well someone plays. Nevertheless, Konami has continued to hold up this rule to the present, as they consider attending these competitions reasonably clean as good sportsmanship. This may have had something to do with the card Yu-Jo Friendship, which requires the opponent to accept a handshake. It was pointed out that an unscrupulous player could force their opponent to forfeit simply by having disgusting hands (at least until the official ruling that you only need to accept the spirit of the handshake). |
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Is Hearthstone's relative simplicity the perfect platform for a new card game competitive scene, or is it just a fun game to pop in and play a few games with a deck made for ridiculousness? | |
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Is Super Smash Bros. a fun party game where you beat up colorful characters, or a fast-paced all-out battle with deeper potential than Nintendo realizes? | |
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