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Jews Love to Argue
- 261 statements
- 49 feature instances
- 48 referencing feature instances
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Describe Jews Love to Argue here. What am I? Your slave? You do it! Um, okay... For whatever reason, Jews and arguing go together like Passover and matzah. You call that a simile? Hey, I'm trying. Give me a break. This probably has to do with the layout of the Talmud, which contains a whole lot of back-and-forth arguments, arguments about what other people are arguing about, and often not even a resolution to the arguments. (Or an argument if there is an argument or not...) Oho, so you're the big gemarakupSorry, what?(talmudic scholar) now? ...I have no idea what that means. Anyway, this is a joke more common among Jews themselves than among gentiles [non-Jews]. Such conversations are generally (in fiction) liberally peppered with Yiddish as a Second Language. That's your gevaldigenote (terrific) description? If I had known you'd write such dreck, I wouldn't have come over. I'm trying not to spend too much time on this. Give me some slack. So you don't think our culture is worth your time? That's not what I meant. I just have other things to do. So you just come here to bang a kettle? A— Dammit, what the hell is your problem? I get just a few lousy minutes out of my busy day to make this, and that's not good enough for you? Oh, you call yourself busy, just sitting around opening tab after tab— Shut up! You don't know what I have to go through every day to… Khalas, shneychem, KHALAS!note Enough, both of you, enough! Look, achinote bro, while those two chofrim basechelnote talk too much in an annoying way; literally digging the mind, you can compare Lower-Class Lout, Badass Israeli, Jewish Complaining, Rambunctious Italian... What about Alter Kocker, or Passive-Aggressive Kombat? Zeh Tropes shel ashkenazim be-amerika, ya ben zona!note These are American Ashkenazi tropes, you son of a bitch! You Americans think that all Jews are exactly like the Nebbish, Ashkenazi frayerimnote suckers, though with a much more negative connotation compared to the US you call Jews... And what would you know from comparisons, anyway, especially when they're given by this Schwartze-khayehnote Prejorative Yiddish term for Mizrahim, which amount to around one-half of Israel's Jewish population? Boh enah, ani efarek'cha ta-tachat!note Come here, I'll rip your ass off! Do you know where I served in the Army? I served in Golaninote A very prestigious combat brigade in the IDF! ...Oy vey. noreallife |
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Fiddler on the Roof, especially Tevye and Golde. Occasionally, Tevye and God! Most notably in this clip. In a later scene, it's only when the rather meek Motel starts standing up to Tevye and arguing back at him that Tevye starts to respect him. "Now he is talking like a man!" |
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Pan Tadeusz: Inverted. Polish nobles will have a go at each other with words, hands, sabers and bullets at the drop of a hat, and the Jewish innkeeper Jankiel is the mediator and Only Sane Man. | |
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Life with Louie has Louie exploring different religions after his grandmother dies. When he tries to examine Judaism for their views on God and the afterlife, the Rabbi answers all his questions with "Some Rabbis say yes. Other Rabbis say no." When Louie finally asks the Rabbi what he thinks, he's only able to answer that he thinks that some Rabbis say yes, and others say no. | |
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The Simpsons: When Bart and Lisa try to get through to Rabbi Krustofsky (Jackie Mason) in "Like Father, Like Clown", they do so by engaging in Talmudic debates. Jakob, the tour guide in "The Greatest Story Ever D'ohed," though he tried to justify it with history: |
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Walter Sobchak from The Big Lebowski may just be this trope taken to its Logical Extreme. Walter doesn't restrain himself to just stereotypical Jewish arguing, he will actually pull out guns or physically assault people over the most minor of issues, such as threatening to shoot a man because of a bowling rule violation. | |
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Elsa Kor's parents argue about everything from the way to butter toast to the way socks have to be folded. | |
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A scene in The Hebrew Hammer where the Jewish Justice League talks about the best man for the job. | |
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"Four Jews in a Room Bitching" is the title of the opening number of Falsettos. | |
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In High Anxiety, Mel Brooks and Madeline Kahn need to get past customs, despite Mel's character being a suspected murderer! How do they do this? By posing as a constantly bickering couple of Alter Kockers that the airport staff are relieved to finally get rid of. It almost works — until Mel's gun sets off the metal detector... | |
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In Everyday Heroes, father and son are both lawyers, reviewing a difficult case. | |
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All the time in The Jews Are Coming, naturally. One of the more memorable skits is the meeting of the Elders of Zion where they get hung up on arguing whether an octopus in an antisemitic cartoon is real or a metaphor. And then the octopuses are shown arguing too. | |
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Fractious of the Whateley Universe also has obsessive-compulsive disorder, so she can't keep from arguing, even with her friends. Still, given that one of her friends has the codename Loophole... | |
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Monty Python's Life of Brian: The film satirizes factionalism in religion and politics, but because the main characters are Jewish, it becomes a somewhat accidental example of this trope. The Judean resistance groups against the Romans can't agree on anything, and are the Trope Namer for We ARE Struggling Together, fighting each other more than fighting the Romans. When Brian tries to blend in by buying a gourd at a market, the merchant insists that Brian try to haggle his price down rather than just take the first offered price. The people listening to sermons from the line of prophets seem to enjoy dissecting the message and arguing with the prophet. Brian's followers quickly dissolve into factions who argue about which holy relic is more holy. |
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In Discworld Dwarfs are often compared to real-life Jews (this was not the author's original intention but he seems to have run with it.) One of the main reasons? They argue a lot, especially about their faith. As Cheery Littlebottom says in The Fifth Elephant: | |
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Salome has five Jews arguing with each other about the nature of God. | |
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The Daily Show commonly features this trope due to the influence of Jon Stewart. While doing a story on Tomorrow's Pioneers, a Palestine kid's show with some less-than-Israel friendly content, the show fired back with a fake Israeli equivalent called "Dr. Bagelman's Hour of Hate". The show quickly devolved into the hosts quarrelling. Stewart quipped, "I shouldn't laugh, but that's actually just an audio recording from my Bar Mitzvah." Stewart uses this joke in his stand-up, including why it proves there isn't a Jewish conspiracy to control the banks. They couldn't get the meeting started without an argument. The show once sent correspondent Wyatt Cenac to a Jewish rest home in Florida to talk about the 2008 election. Eventually, the group interviews degenerated into such a morass of argument (over the issue of what to order for dessert) that Cenac was left sitting on the sidelines, genuinely stunned. When Ron Paul was excluded from the Republican Jewish debate over his "misguided and extreme views", Stewart mocked the validity of the debate since it was obvious that they only wanted people with the exact same opinions, by saying "because if there's one thing Jews hate, it's arguing." |
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The Big Bang Theory: Howard Wolowitz and his mother. | |
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God on Trial is a movie about a group of Jewish prisoners at a concentration camp, arguing whether or not God is to blame for their predicament. Arguing is all that happens in the movie. | |
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Referenced in Atomic Robo when the title character gets into a blazing row with the undead Thomas Edison. One of the scientists watching the whole mess is reminded of her parents at Passover - "Uh, but also with a robot and a ghost." | |
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Curb Your Enthusiasm is a show about this trope. Larry David and a predominantly Jewish cast argue about the slightest trivialities, then argue about the fact that they're arguing. | |
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Seen and Not Heard: When Bet says she believes in God "sometimes", her rabbi calls it "an extremely Jewish answer", saying that "we love our questioning. Our arguing. Our exploration." He also says that being pissed off at your lot in life is also very Jewish. | |
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One of the implied main themes in The Diary of a Young Girl (Anne Frank) is that people around her love to argue with each other over trivial things, and this doesn't even include how Anne herself has a very rough relationship with her mother. This may be understandable, though. Having nine people hiding in a secret, tiny annexe for nearly two years is gonna build up a lot of stress. | |
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A Thing of Vikings: When Esther arrives in Vedrarfjord, she is shocked to find a rabbi arguing with a Christian priest, and even more shocked to learn that the two men are actually on friendly terms and they have regular theological arguments together on a daily basis, except for Shabbos and Sunday, with the loser buying dinner. | |
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In The Chosen Danny Saunders and his father entertain the congregation by arguing Rabbinical lore in front of them. Tragically, that is the only time they can communicate which is the point of the plot. | |
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In Big Mouth, Andrew Glouberman's father Marty is the personification of this trope. | |
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Seinfeld features a great deal of very Jewy arguments over the trivialities of day-to-day life. Jerry is Jewish and, according to Word of God, George is half-Jewish on his mother's side.note Off-screen, Jason Alexander is Jewish on both sides of his family, as are his on-screen parents Jerry Stiller and Estelle Harris (their families are mostly of Polish/Ukrainian origin). | |
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In The Wolf of Wall Street, Donnie Azoff loves picking arguments with people just so he can get under their skin, even when it's really not in his best interests. | |
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In Foucault's Pendulum, Belbo uses this trope as an excuse to poke holes in Diotallevi's flimsy claim to Jewish descent. | |
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Will & Grace: Grace is aghast that Will has learned his father is having an affair but refuses to confront him over it. She points out that a Jewish family like hers would argue about it instead of bottling up their feelings. Will insists that his gentile family don't talk about these things, and invites his father and The Mistress to dinner. Grace ends up having a Heroic BSoD during the meal as the tension is glaringly obvious, but everyone is stubbornly clinging to polite small talk. | |
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Noted frequently in The Kingdom and the Crown where most of the main characters are Jewish. | |
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Referenced in 30 Rock: | |
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In American Splendor, Harvey Pekar notes that old Jewish women will argue over ANYTHING at the checkout counter of a grocery store. | |
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In Orange Is the New Black Black Cindy references this as part of her heartfelt reason for why she wants to convert—the contentious, uncertain nature of the Jewish attitude toward religion appeals to her. | |
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In World War Z, Israeli intelligence agent Jurgen Warbrunn discusses the "Tenth Man" rule. If nine men share the same opinion or theory, the tenth must always disagree. No matter how compelling the evidence, he must always dig deeper and try to prove the others wrong. This is why Israel was able to protect itself against the Zombie Apocalypse. Leading to the old joke: "If nine men out of ten agree, then the tenth is probably Jewish." | |
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Grandma's House is made of this, too. | |
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In Rugrats, Tommy's maternal grandparents Boris and Minka. Any time Boris asks Minka anything, her response was always, "What do I look like here? Your servant girl?" | |
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David and his father in Independence Day bicker near-constantly, even while en route to the White House. | |
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The Bible: This is what the Midrash and the Talmud are, Rabbis arguing. In the Torah, Jews argue with God. Abraham frickin' haggles with God over the number of righteous men needed to save Sodom and Gomorrah. Just to clarify: The Talmud is a record of rabbis arguing, often over other arguments which are over the Midrash's arguments with itself. Traditional Talmud study is nonstop arguing. So really people are arguing about arguments about arguments about arguments. Then they start comparing those arguments... The name "Israel" which God originally gave Jacob (Genesis 32:28) means "He wrestles with God". While the story of Jacob struggling with the Angel is usually thought of in a purely literal sense, the more figurative meaning—that Israel's people (i.e. the Jews) are always "wrestling" (arguing) with God—is every bit as valid. Due to the complexities of the Hebrew language, the exact nature of how they wrestle is unclear. It could actually be a mental 'struggle' in Jacob's own mind. There are several varying translations for 'isra', from 'rule' to 'straight'. They are the "Israelites," so wrestling with God is part of their name too. Moses also argues with God when He wants to destroy the People of Israel and make Moses into the (first of the) new People of Israel. Moses argues with God and wins the argument. And this happens over. And over. And over. This trope even unwittingly appears in Muslim tradition, where, during Muhammad's Night Journey, it is Moses who convinces Muhammad to haggle with God on the number of required prayers for Muslims when God commands Muslims to pray fifty times a day; Moses, probably seeing the difficulty with which Jews were having in following all 613 mitzvot, advises Muhammad to ask God to lighten the load. Muhammad goes up to God's throne and comes back to Moses several times, each time asking (more or less) "What do you think, Moses?", and Moses replying (more or less) "Still too much," eventually bringing it down from fifty to five. Moses encouraged him to get it down to three, but Muhammad said, essentially, "that's a bit much". (This all occurred in the Meccan period, when the small Muslim community knew little of the Jews except that they were fellow monotheists, hence the qualifier "unwittingly.") It also ends up in Christian tradition: a good part of The Four Gospels records Jesus arguing with others, including even with his own disciples, about the correct interpretations and applications of the Law of Moses. In turn, the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles involve Paul arguing with other Jewish converts over whether gentile converts have to keep Torah, the apostles getting into scraps with the Sanhedrin over whether it's permissible to preach in the name of Jesus, and Paul even starting a dispute between Pharisees and Saducees to get himself out of trouble. There's a book titled, Arguing with God: A Jewish Tradition. Abraham was just the start. As recorded in the Talmud, there's also a story of Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus, a prominent (and extremely conservative) Roman-era rabbi, trying to convince the Sanhedrin that he was in the right about a particular kind of oven being impervious to Levitical uncleanness. Even when overruled, he managed to call on various signs from the natural world (trees, a stream, the beams of the Sanhedrin building) to show he was in the right. Each time, the Sanhedrin dismissed the sign as the sign-bearer do not innately have the qualifications to comment on Jewish law.note In Jewish tradition, arguments must be won through logical debate, not miracles, under the grounds that lots of people, even non-Jews, can do (or appear to do) miracles. Finally, Eliezer beseeched God Himself to step in... which He did, identifying Eliezer as correct about the oven being tamei-proof. Cue the Sanhedrin head rebuking God for this, even quoting Deuteronomy to the effect that the demands of the law put jurisdiction only among the rabbis; "it is not in the heavens". Let that sink in; the rabbis dismissed God for overstepping His legal bounds. Best part? Immediately afterwards, at the throne of Heaven, God was laughing with delight, saying "My children have defeated Me, My children have defeated Me!". Another story from the Talmud highlights the degree of affection involved in the process. Rabbi Yohanan's study partner, Resh Lakish, dies, and the other rabbis find him someone new to work with. But where Resh Lakish would argue every point Yohanan made, no matter how obviously correct, the new guy was willing to say "you're right". This did not help Yohanan's mood. According to the Talmud, Yohanan replies that Resh Lakish would pick apart everything Yohanan said, and in answering the rebuttals the discussion would move forward. But this new guy - hah! "But you [the new partner] say 'we learned a teaching that supports you.' Of course I know that I am right!" And on that thought, he goes out to shed some Manly Tears for his old argument partner. |
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One strip in Torpedo has the titular contract killer out of town for a few days, so his assistant decides to take a few contracts himself, thinking it can't be that hard. However, it turns out two Jewish shopkeepers had mutually asked that he kill the other, so he spends some time going back and forth between the two shops as they increase the price. Finally, he snaps and drags them both out in the middle of the street so they can settle the argument without involving him. Several hours later, they come to an understanding by beating the crap out of the poor guy. | |
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Mushnik does this frequently in Little Shop of Horrors. | |
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Robot Chicken spoofs this with Yarael Poof, who constantly gripes about how the Jedi Council isn't so much a "council" as he'd like, and is given tasks like making a pizza or coffee run because of his bitterness. This actually saves him from the Jedi purge at the temple. | |
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In You Don't Mess with the Zohan, Israeli Jews love to argue... with Palestinians. It's really quite civil and all in good fun, though. | |
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Kenny vs. Spenny seems to count. Both of the guys are of Jewish heritage, though neither are observant. | |
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Another story from the Talmud highlights the degree of affection involved in the process. Rabbi Yohanan's study partner, Resh Lakish, dies, and the other rabbis find him someone new to work with. But where Resh Lakish would argue every point Yohanan made, no matter how obviously correct, the new guy was willing to say "you're right". This did not help Yohanan's mood. According to the Talmud, Yohanan replies that Resh Lakish would pick apart everything Yohanan said, and in answering the rebuttals the discussion would move forward. But this new guy - hah! "But you [the new partner] say 'we learned a teaching that supports you.' Of course I know that I am right!" And on that thought, he goes out to shed some Manly Tears for his old argument partner. | |
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Naturally shows up in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. In the pilot, when Midge mentions during the wedding that there's shrimp in the egg rolls, this prompts an outrage among the predominantly Jewish guests. Her father Abe Weissman immediately starts an argument with the rabbi, demanding where it says that Jews can't have shrimp. Naturally, being a rabbi, the latter immediately replies with the appropriate passage. In season 3, she even writes it into her routine: | |
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The Rabbi's Cat: The main character is a snarky cat and his human is a rabbi in 1930s Algiers with a spirited daughter, so arguments feature on just about every page over morality, religion, politics, etc. Oddly enough, there are as many discussions that are perfectly civil in tone even between different religions. | |
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Reboot (2022): Gordon brings in a trio of experienced (ahem, old) Jewish writers. They take an hour to decide where to go for lunch and another hour to complain about the food. | |
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Angel of the Bat features The Seraphim and his older brother, Joshua. Both are ethnically (though not religiously) Jewish, hate one another and The Seraphim keeps him alive in the hopes of one day breaking his spirit and converting him to his cause. | |
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