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Original Position Fallacy

706 statements
132 feature instances
71 referencing feature instances

Original Position Fallacy	type	FeatureClass
Original Position Fallacy	label	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy	page	OriginalPositionFallacy
Original Position Fallacy	comment	A situation in which a character promotes an action, revolution or social system that harms or will harm other people, under the assumption that it will not harm them. They will invariably discover that they were wrong, with the double whammy of knowing they supported the measure that caused their suffering when they thought it would happen to 'somebody else'. Imagine that Bob attends a banquet for 200 people at the mayor's house. When he arrives, he is informed that they made an error when ordering the food: there is enough steak for the first 100 guests, but everyone else will have to make do with vegetables. Bob, looking around and seeing the room less than half full, says he thinks this is fair. Only afterward does he see the second dining room, filled up with people who arrived earlier, and realize that he isn't going to be in the group that gets a full dinner. Poor Bob. He would have been wiser to remember the thought experiment from which this trope takes its name: John Rawls' "original position", which says that the only fair laws are those passed from behind the hypothetical "veil of ignorance" (i.e. you don't know whether you'll benefit or suffer from the change). If he had realized he could be in the group that wouldn't get a steak, he might have suggested serving half portions so everyone could have some meat. Instead, he refused to share 'his' steak, and that was his missed steak. The main use of this trope is to show that blind self-interest is a bad thing â€” Bob shouldn't have been so quick to give "someone else" a steak-less dinner when he thought his meal would be fine. If he is fortunate, the plot will hand him a second chance to approach the question â€” presumably with a bit more compassion this time. But in many cases it's too late for regrets: Bob has his vegetables, and now he must eat them. Of course, it is also possible that the mayor â€” who did know the outcome and could assign the menu options â€” steered Bob into making a choice that was worse for him, perhaps to damn him by his own words. Call it an "Original Position Gambit" if you will. This trope is also one of the places where Off the Table doesn't shift sympathy away from the person who refuses to re-extend the offer. ("Oh, Bob wants everyone to share their steak now? Too bad.") A character whose thinking falls into the Original Position Fallacy may start out as a Hell Seeker, end up as a Boomerang Bigot, Dirty Coward, or any combination thereof. One category of person particularly vulnerable to this thinking is the Sub-Par Supremacist. If someone pulled the gambit version on Bob, it was probably a Magnificent Bastard skilled in Gambit Speed Chess. See also The Window or the Stairs, which weaponizes this trope by disguising the worse option as the better one. This fallacy also drives a Prophecy Twist or two - someone hearing a prophecy thinks it'll come true on terms that'll be favourable to them, or that they'll never be in a situation where the prophecy might screw them over. May result in a Karmic Transformation or a Color Me Black situation; sometimes forms the 'twist' of a Karmic Twist Ending. Contrast Who Will Bell the Cat?, where a change that would benefit most at the cost of a few never gets implemented because no one wants to be "the few." And contrast No Place for Me There who are happy with the situation, even if they become the victim. Closely related to Moral Myopia, Protagonist-Centered Morality and Excuse Boomerang. Compare A Taste of Their Own Medicine, where one receives the same poor treatment they inflicted on others as a form of revenge. The Inverted Trope is of course The Golden Rule: Only do things unto others that you can agree would be fair if done unto you.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_11c6567a	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_11c6567a	comment	In the Thursday Next novel One of Our Thursdays Is Missing, Thursday is trapped in the Oral Tradition aboard the ship Ethical Dilemma, which is the setting of an ethics lecture about the morality of killing or torturing one person to save a larger group. Thursday chooses to give the lecturer an aneurysm in order to save the ship.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_12300cc3	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_12300cc3	comment	Watchmen by Alan Moore tackles this with his superheroes Rorscharch and the Comedian. Both of them are Sociopathic Heroes who take on positions of Straw Nihilist and The Antinihilist respectively. They keep telling people that Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids!, that they alone know "the truth" about the absurdity and harshness of the world. Then they come face to face with someone who internalizes their sayings and decides to do something about it, and their facade of cynicism cracks. Rorschach earlier espoused support of Harry Truman using the atomic bombs to end World War II, saying it was a terrible act that saved millions. When he comes across Ozymandias who uses a similar justification to unleash an attack on New York City (as a Genghis Gambit to end the Cold War and avert an incipient nuclear war), he denounces this action and states that he will expose the truth instead, only for him to be killed by Dr. Manhattan, one more sacrifice for the greater good. It's implied that this is sort of Suicide by Cop due to Rorshach being unable to reconcile the outcome of Ozymandias's actions with his own Black-and-White Morality.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_1484a16e	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_1484a16e	comment	Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Draco Malfoy catches Harry, Ron, and Hermione out of bed after curfew to visit Hagrid and reports them to get them in trouble. While they are punished more severely by Professor McGonagall, who deducts fifty House points each, Draco is shocked when McGonagall orders him to also serve detention, since he was also out of bed after curfew.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_16fc4335	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_16fc4335	comment	Discussed in the Heralds of Valdemar novels, where "May you get exactly what you deserve" is considered a curse. The implication is that the target might initially accept it, thinking they deserve better than what they have, but will shortly discover that they deserve worse.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_17ace8e1	comment	While not as prevalent, the fallacy is also reflected in Bioshock Infinite regarding Comstock's flying paradise for the American People. Fink realized that none of the white, wealthy, religious patrons who'd flock to Comstock's city as "God's Kingdom" would be eager to do manual labor or menial tasks to maintain the 'heavenly' city, so he brought in "Cherubs for every chore", i.e. a massive foreign labor force that would eventually revolt and become the Vox Populi. This didn't end well for anybody.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_1c334568	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_1c334568	comment	The Walking Dead: From the fall of the prison safe zone onwards, Rick and Abraham stress that survival is the most important thing and that morals simply hold people back. They end up profoundly shaken when they meet those who take such ideas to their natural conclusion; Gabriel, who abandoned his congregation to hide in his church, The Hunters, who cannibalized survivors, and Eugene, who lied about being able to cure the zombie virus to save his own skin. In the end, they conclude that they have to set better examples and that the zombie apocalypse canâ€™t be an excuse to do otherwise.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_1c649ab3	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_1c649ab3	comment	The Rising of the Shield Hero: Slavers launch a raid on title character Naofumi's feudal holding because his protecting the demihumans there has increased the price in regions opposed to the Shield Hero. After the surviving raiders try to pull Screw the Rules, I Have Connections! to keep him from summarily executing them all, he sells them into slavery in a region that worships the Shield Hero. They are not best pleased by this outcome.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_1f72b18d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_1f72b18d	comment	Many Tom and Jerry shorts have Jerry seeming to favor having an Angry Guard Dog around since it usually gets Tom off his back and often getting kicks from watching a cat getting chased and tormented by the larger beast. Though, there are a few shorts where "said dog" doesn't just settle on the cat but then shows every bit of animosity on wanting to do the same to the mouse. Thus, Jerry then finds himself teaming up with Tom, with the two of them having to work together in order to deal with an aggressive and large canine bent on chomping them both.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2212773a	comment	Angel: Wolfram and Hart, with Holland Manners at the helm, resurrect Darla and have Drusilla turn her back into a vampire. In "Reunion", he encourages them to commit "a massacre", promising to support them in it; and when Angel tersely tells him people will die, causally replies "And yet, I just can't seem to care". This lasts right up until Darla and Drusilla decide to massacre him and his team, then he begs Angel to save them.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2250e67e	comment	Star Trek: Enterprise: Terra Prime in the two-parter "Demons" and "Terra Prime" is a human-supremacist group whose leader John Paxton idolizes Colonel Green, a 21st century tyrant who exterminated irradiated victims of World War III. T'Pol discovers that not only does Paxton secretly have a genetic disorder that would have marked him for death under Green's regime, but he's been treating it with imported Rigelian medicine. T'Pol tries to blackmail him into standing down over this, but Paxton claims his followers wouldn't believe it coming from a Vulcan. (Events move too fast after this to actually test his opinion.)
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Original Position Fallacy / int_27f76aca	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_27f76aca	comment	Superman vs. the Elite: Manchester and his team operate under a philosophy of Might Makes Right and consider it the best response to kill anyone who's threatening violence against others. They're horrified when Superman (who's stronger than all of them) responds to their violence in kind (or pretends to).
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Original Position Fallacy / int_291dc90e	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_291dc90e	comment	In Octopath Traveler II, Mugen is a very firm believer of Ku's Might Makes Right mentality and intends to conquer Solistia through military strength. He constantly talks about how the weak exist to either serve or get cut down by the strong. Once Hikari beats him in combat, however, Mugen refuses to accept his defeat or acknowledge that he's now one of the "weaklings" he looked down upon.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2b727723	comment	From Reddit's r/MaliciousCompliance, an expectant mother's mother-in-law decided "grandparents deserve a vote" on the names of the grandkids. OP agreed... and invited the other grandparents to the vote as well. Mother-in-law lost 4 to 2.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2ba3e3b9	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_2ba3e3b9	comment	Accentuated in Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. The Chaos ending is the typical scenario, transforming Earth into a world of survival of the fittest, though Humanity fails to take into account that demons are inherently stronger than them, so they're quickly wiped off the face of the earth. You're urged to take a plan B to do something similar, but by taking demons out of the equation.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2d1214a3	comment	The Other Boleyn Girl: Anne Boleyn assumed that she would be able to maintain her role as the triumphant queen once Henry VIII divorced Catherine of Aragon and married her. In reality, as soon as she ascends the throne, every noble family in England makes note that replacing a queen can be done and starts trying it themselves with their own daughters. Since Anneâ€™s tactics to keep Henry's attention involved being flirtatious while limiting actual physical contact to the minimum, she finds it difficult to maintain his interest once he has her and various ladies proceed to copy her approach of playing hard to get. In addition, Anne also made the age-old error of believing the man who'd kept several mistresses throughout his first marriage would remain faithful to her, and she's enraged when Henry starts getting up to his old tricks with the ladies of her chamber.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2db9172b	comment	The plot of Devil May Cry 5 is kicked off by Vergil's decision to split himself into his human and demon halves. He discovers seconds later that he is not The Unfettered demon Urizen but the helpless human V and spends most of the rest of the game trying to find someone powerful enough to defeat Urizen so they can reunite.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2ddf611	comment	In the Dark Sun setting's history, the Companions helped the insane Absolute Xenophobe Rajaat execute his genocide of all the "impure" sapient races of Athas, right up until they realized that he wasn't actually human and counted humans among the impure races. Cue a collective Oh, Crap! and hasty ploy to seal his evil in a can.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_2f203125	comment	Most representatives of the Chaos alignment in Shin Megami Tensei support the creation of a world where Might Makes Right because they believe they're strong enough to end up on top in such a world. Many don't take it well when the protagonist defeats them in battle, thus proving themselves stronger. Accentuated in Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. The Chaos ending is the typical scenario, transforming Earth into a world of survival of the fittest, though Humanity fails to take into account that demons are inherently stronger than them, so they're quickly wiped off the face of the earth. You're urged to take a plan B to do something similar, but by taking demons out of the equation.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_30a5ebfd	comment	Naruto: Danzo was all in favor of instructing his ninjas to sacrifice themselves if need be, in part because his own high rank made his chances of doing so himself extremely low. In a rare variation of this trope, he was aware of this hypocrisy and hated himself for it. Even more so because when he was younger, he hesitated at a crucial moment and instead it was his master the Second Hokage who sacrificed himself for the sake of the village. Ultimately he does end up making one to stop Tobi from getting Shishui's eye.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_31313512	comment	ANNO: Mutationem: Castor takes up on assisting C's Evil Plan to retrieve The Dypheus' Breath once he's convinced obtaining it will grant him a new position within The Consortium and restore his family's status. As Castor later finds out, C never intended on fulfilling the deal, which leads to him and Melissa both getting stranded out in the desert.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_32c541e6	comment	In Fullmetal Alchemist, both the Emperor of Xerxes and the military leadership of Amestris fall victim to this. They both conspire with Father, the original Homunculus, to commit mass human sacrifice in order to achieve immortality; none of them realize that their immortality will consist of having their souls transmuted into a Philosopher's Stone.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_334120fc	comment	8-Bit Theater: Several times, including with the final boss, Black Mage has attempted to cozy up to whatever force of evil is attempting to destroy the world under the belief that they'll team up and get to do it together. Then said evil force makes it clear that this is not a case of Evil Is One Big, Happy Family and Black Mage will get destroyed along with everything else, forcing Black Mage to go back to the heroes. At the end of the comic with it looking like the end is imminent, Thief attempts to back out thinking his wealth will allow him to live the good life in whatever's left. Black Mage and Red Mage have to point out to him that Money Is Not Power if there's no economy to support it. Thief is quick to return to world-saving as a result.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_347ec243	comment	Monster Rancher: Allan wants to join Moo, assuming that he'll get to be in charge because he's human. He fails to consider that Moo might not want human followers, or that many of the monsters working for Moo want Revenge on abusive trainers like him. He's shocked beyond belief when the Seed Sisters immediately betray him and offer Worm the chance to do the same.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_353995d2	comment	The premise of Sea Salt. A seaside town has prospered by making a deal with Dagon. The game opens with the Archbishop praying to Dagon to find out which people need to be sacrificed for continued blessing. As soon as his own name is mentioned, he goes from happy obedience to stammering excuses about how he's too important. It's up to the player to command Dagon's minions and collect the payment the hard way.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_35db946f	comment	In the HFIL holiday special "A Freeza Day in Hell", Goz and Mez are fine with Freeza Day (Freeza's appropriation of Christmas) being celebrated for the sake of a social gathering, and are even tolerant about the yearly tradition of Freeza blowing up one of the houses. And then Cell's trickery prompts Freeza into choosing to blow up their house.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_35f5d687	comment	In a scene reminiscent of Henry V Act II, Scene 2, while deciding the sentences of convicted traitors Castor and Carla Vargas, Souma asks the jury of nobles what should be done with them. Two of them suggest clemency and are escorted out of the room. The others call for the Vargas' heads—and are promptly decapitated for their own treasonous activities by Souma's Black Cat ninjas who had infiltrated the room. Souma then sentences the Vargases to enslavement, while the two nobles who called for clemency are given jobs in Souma's administration.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3840524e	comment	1776: Benjamin Franklin snarks at one point that rebellions are only illegal when other people are doing them. During the But, Mr. Adams number, Thomas Jefferson happily sings along with the other committee members' excuses to not write the Declaration of Independence... until he realizes that that leaves only him without an excuse, and so he'll be stuck in Philadelphia writing the thing and won't be able to go home to see his wife.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_38c87187	comment	Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal has someone try to reincarnate as a northern elephant seal to have up to 100 mates in his harem each mating season. Cue reincarnating as one of the mates.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3953baf0	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_3953baf0	comment	The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Disney): Claude Frollo, who is a Knight Templar Complete Monster, says "and He shall smite the wicked and send them into the fiery pit" as he prepares to kill the heroes.note Frollo "sees corruption everywhere except within", and is delusional enough to think himself the righteous one while pegging the Roma Esmeralda and the misshapen Quasimodo as wicked. God apparently obliges, sending the wicked Frollo falling into the molten lead far below.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_39fe00f1	comment	Dragon Age: Inquisition: One of your mage companions, Vivienne, is strongly in favor of reinstating the Circle of Magi, under the reasoning that mages must be imprisoned and controlled by Templars for their own safety and the safety of the general public, and that so long as the mages behave themselves they'll be allowed to live. However, she submits to none of those restrictions, being the Court Mage to the Orlesian court and essentially living the free life of a noble while claiming every other mage should be contained for their own good. Toyed with regarding the Venatori, one of the main antagonist factions. Their leader the Elder One wants to enter the Fade and claim the power of a god and use it to reshape the world and restore the Tevinter Imperium to its glory days. The Bad Future you see in one quest line is not hospitable to human life, let alone Tevinter's restoration, and several of the Venatori seem to think they'll be made the sole ruler of the world for their service while the Elder One takes up the position of deity, rather than simply another slave. However, it's unclear how much they know of his plans and their actual effects. The Venatori leader Calpernia, for example, is genuinely unaware that Corypheus plans to put her in a Fate Worse than Death situation to make use of the Well of Sorrows without suffering its side-effects himself, and when informed of this she immediately stops fighting and leaves to confront him. In the Jaws of Hakkon DLC, the First Inquisitor Ameridan who was an elven mage was fine with his close personal friend Emperor Drakon leading religiously-motivated imperial expansionist campaigns against neighboring human kingdoms because Drakon assured him he and his descendants would always honor Dales elven sovereignty. When Ameridan learns that Drakon's own son annexed the Dales one short generation after he disappeared he's horrified, as he'd assumed that his people would be exempt from Drakon's imperial expansionism- albeit that this was because shortly after he disappeared, a series of tragic misunderstandings led to a severe and immediate deterioration in human/elf relationships that in turn provoked the war; Drakon's son probably would've kept his promise otherwise.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3a2e9e88	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_3a2e9e88	comment	Ancienverse: As part of DARC, Michael sets out to activate the Ultimate Weapon and turn its power against the world... without ever considering that he might end up on the wrong end of that power. Something that leads to his demise when it fires upon him.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3b34143f	comment	Harry Potter: Many people who joined the Death Eaters were merely in it For the Evulz, or the chance to get ahead in wizarding society, or because Voldemort's victory seemed certain (and many were half-bloods masquerading as pureblood). Some found out that his evil was far beyond the bullying and Muggle-baiting they were used to, some tried to claim they'd been mind-controlled the entire time, and others still found themselves too deeply compromised to do anything but keep serving him. In the backstory, Severus Snape turned on the Death Eaters and became a Double Agent for Dumbledore's Order of the Phoenix after Voldemort targeted Lily Potter (nee Evans), with whom he had been in a Love Triangle with James Potter when they were all students at Hogwarts. Meaning that he was all on board with Voldemort's plans until they affected somebody he actually cared about. Worse yet, he openly begged Voldemort to let her live after killing her husband and son, which best case scenario would've left her to live in grief. He only turned to Dumbledore for help when Voldemort refused to do even that, causing Dumbledore to call him out for his immense selfishness. The goblins welcomed Voldemort's upheaval of the wizarding world at first, thinking it the end of wizardkind's casual contempt on nonhuman magic beings. Instead, they seemed to have been reduced to menial work (quoth Griphook, who escaped: "I am no house-elf."). You'd think going with an organization that prides itself on purity of wizarding lineage would have set off more warning bells. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Draco Malfoy catches Harry, Ron, and Hermione out of bed after curfew to visit Hagrid and reports them to get them in trouble. While they are punished more severely by Professor McGonagall, who deducts fifty House points each, Draco is shocked when McGonagall orders him to also serve detention, since he was also out of bed after curfew.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3c38c613	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_3c38c613	comment	In The Merchant of Venice, when the time comes for Antonio to finally pay his debt to Shylock, Shylock rejects an offer to pay back triple the money owed in favor of insisting that the Exact Words of the contract, that he take a pound of flesh from Antonio, be followed in the hopes of getting rid of someone he hates. Portia, disguised as a lawyer, asks him to choose mercy, but all in vain. After the judgment, she springs the trap — he can carve a pound of flesh from Antonio, but he can't take any blood, or he'll be executed for murder. Shylock, understandably, tries to either accept a different offer or drop the suit, but both of those options are now Off the Table.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3c6e7f9f	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_3c6e7f9f	comment	Cross Ange: Humans exile Norma (humans who cannot use Mana and negate Mana that comes into contact with them) to an island in the middle of nowhere to act as Slave Mooks to protect their Crapsaccharine World, making them Un-person. Princess Angelise of the Mitsurugi Empire considers this entirely appropriate... until it turns out in the first episode that she's a Norma herself and her royal parents had covered it up. The fallacy is pointed out to her face in episode three.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3eacc2fd	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_3eacc2fd	comment	Brent Butt (of Corner Gas fame) had a bit where he recalled encountering an extremely scrawny guy wearing a shirt bearing the anarchy symbol, and naturally mocked how unlikely he'd be to survive if he ever got his wish.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3ee3ceda	comment	In The Last Continent, the Chair of Indefinite Studies darkly mutters that in "the old days" they used to kill wizards like Ridcully. The Dean points out that they also used to kill wizards like them. This is also a bit inaccurate. Ridcully was originally recruited as a useful hick who could take the job and not make waves but be easily assassinated if he was a problem. Turns out that, as a country wizard, he's in alarmingly good shape and a crack shot with a crossbow.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_3fbd173e	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_3fbd173e	comment	Freefall: A man discusses this when he refuses to attack someone for a large bribe: "The Needs of the Many" sounds good until you're designated one of the few. A space station manager tries to replace the human maintenance workers with unpaid robots as a cost-saving measure, only to discover an appreciation for labour protections when he's told that an AI could easily (as in even easier than the others because management doesn't need hardware) do his job.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_400469e	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_400469e	comment	Calvin and Hobbes: In one strip Calvin complains to Hobbes that the ends should justify the means: you shouldn't get in trouble if you get what you want. Hobbes promptly pushes Calvin into the mud, saying that Calvin was in his way but now he's not, so the ends justify the means. An irate Calvin shouts that he only meant for him, not for everybody. Another strip has Calvin decide to become a fatalist. That way, if bad things happen he's not responsible for them. Cue Hobbes tripping him into the mud puddle again.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_43c1fbe4	comment	Several of the debates in Exile Election involve this. For instance, Miori's debate revolves around the concept of a world where everyone's abilities are translated into stats, with this information being widely known. Most of her supporters naturally believe that their stats would be high enough that they'll be recognized as special and be treated accordingly. Ironically, Miori believes the exact opposite. She thinks her stats would be low enough that she'd be dismissed as worthless, and everyone would leave her alone and stop expecting anything from her.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_468bebb0	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_468bebb0	comment	Discworld: Inverted for (pre-Ridcully) wizards and Assassins, who view their respective hierarchies as stifling and extremely unfair, but are very happy with it once they become high rankers themselves. Those who don't achieve high ranks... let's just say their complaints are unlikely to matter. Guards! Guards!: The Brotherhood of Ebon Night enthusiastically agree with their master's wish for a return to the "good old days" when Ankh-Morpork was ruled by a king, who enforced "justice" that rewarded the deserving and punished the undeserving, taking for granted that in any such regime they themselves would be sorted into the first group; they thus embrace their Supreme Grand Master's plan to magically summon a dragon to wreak a little havoc in the city and pave the way for the return of their Puppet King. They regret the lives lost, but tell themselves that it is in service to the greater good, until the dragon incinerates their puppet king, their headquarters, and almost the entirety of their order inside it. In Jingo, the lords and guild heads of Ankh-Morpork are agitating for war against Klatch, and outraged to hear that (since the City has no standing army), the treasury is bankrupt and can't afford to hire a mercenary force. The Patrician, Lord Vetinari, says the main cause of this is tax evasion by the wealthy; the lords and guild heads demand that this be addressed immediately, and Lord Vetinari says he already has a list of the worst offenders and offers to deputize the City Watch to collect from them - at which point the lords and guild heads sit down and mumble that some other solution must be found. In The Last Continent, the Chair of Indefinite Studies darkly mutters that in "the old days" they used to kill wizards like Ridcully. The Dean points out that they also used to kill wizards like them. This is also a bit inaccurate. Ridcully was originally recruited as a useful hick who could take the job and not make waves but be easily assassinated if he was a problem. Turns out that, as a country wizard, he's in alarmingly good shape and a crack shot with a crossbow.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_468c2a7a	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_468c2a7a	comment	One Judge Dee story has the judge attend a play, in which two brothers are complaining about their inheritance, each claiming they got shafted while waving the paper that lists their share. The judge of the play tells the brothers to exchange lists.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_47b1287b	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_47b1287b	comment	Quentyn Quinn, Space Ranger: Referenced when a group of Space Pirates who were fighting Quentyn find themselves helpless against a single Kvrk-Chk until Quentyn saves them.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_490a7d52	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_490a7d52	comment	The Karma of Lies: Adrien presumes that Lila's scheming and scamming doesn't really matter because he's already aware of her true nature; thus, nothing she does can really impact HIM. The fact that she's conning his classmates isn't a big deal since he's not personally affected (and he's too rich to understand how much they're losing). Naturally, Lila exploits his Moral Myopia to string him along, luring him into helping her out despite knowing what she's like, then stabs him in the back for a major payday. Then and only then is he willing to tell the others that she's a Con Artist, with his classmates abandoning him when they learn that he's known from the start and happily watched her grift them of their most prized belongings. Two Letters, a Spiritual Successor story by the same author, also invokes this trope with Mayor Bourgeois. He wanted a Ladybug who could be bribed into supporting his corrupt activities, but he forgot that he's not the only person around who wants Ladybug's endorsement, and that the original Ladybug's honesty was the only thing stopping her from being paid by those other people to destroy him. So, when Marinette retires and her Sketchy Successor also known as Lila Rossi takes over and begins accepting bribes, Bourgeois finds himself going broke making bigger and bigger payments just to keep her from being bought by someone else who wants her to denounce him.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_4cd32aa7	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_4cd32aa7	comment	In Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, mutants are hated and feared for their obvious taint of Chaos; but one book points out that, while many denizens of the Empire have little problem condemning mutants if they're someone they don't know (or like), attitudes change fairly quickly once they or their loved ones experience mutation themselves. In particular, families that experience the birth of mutant children usually decide to either hide the baby or abandon them in the woods, rather than kill them or consign them to the witch hunters as is their duty.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_53a0bd32	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_53a0bd32	comment	The Twilight Zone (1959): The episode "Four O'Clock" stars Oliver, who resolves to shrink all the evil people in the world to two feet tall. He never considers that he might be considered an evil person and thus shrunk himself. Thus when the appointed time comes out, he's horrified to see himself subjected to his own process.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_546876cb	comment	Sonic Boom: In the episode "Mister Eggman", Eggman signs up for the class of the Sadist Teacher Professor Kingsford and is eager to see who the "goat" - the student turned into the professor's Butt-Monkey - will be, not realizing that as one of his students, he's just as vulnerable to getting that position himself. Sure enough, it's Eggman who ends up being the goat.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_58d80a4a	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_58d80a4a	comment	In Jingo, the lords and guild heads of Ankh-Morpork are agitating for war against Klatch, and outraged to hear that (since the City has no standing army), the treasury is bankrupt and can't afford to hire a mercenary force. The Patrician, Lord Vetinari, says the main cause of this is tax evasion by the wealthy; the lords and guild heads demand that this be addressed immediately, and Lord Vetinari says he already has a list of the worst offenders and offers to deputize the City Watch to collect from them - at which point the lords and guild heads sit down and mumble that some other solution must be found.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_5921531c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_5921531c	comment	In Persona 5, many members of the Conspiracy are like this. They're fine with Shido causing people to have mental breakdowns as long as those breakdowns are people who are their rivals and enemies. However, few stop to think about the fact that his targets tend to be people who are dangerous to him. Such as people who know he's the one causing the breakdowns. They're far less happy when they realize (as they die) that they're on the chopping block as well.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_59da62aa	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_59da62aa	comment	Fallout: New Vegas: Vault 11's sadistic social experiment, revealed by their Overseer after they permanently sealed the exit, was to force the citizens into sacrificing one person a year or the vault would self-destruct. They unanimously decided to sacrifice their Overseer.This turned into a tradition of sacrificing their elected overseer at the end of every year, under the premise that the one with all the power is / will become an asshole and should pay the price. Which turned corrupt as the majority formed voting blocs to target minorities and annoyances, and the Justice Bloc's leader took full advantage of their influence to bully anyone into submission with threats of getting them or their loved ones elected, then get them elected anyway. Except one pissed-off victim intentionally got herself elected in a landslide with a string of bloc serial killings, and used her overseer powers to make all future sacrifices selected at random, screwing the blocs over with their own voting power and belief in electing a Strawman Political to blame.Which went horribly wrong as the formerly smug, untouchable Justice Bloc went berserk and launched an armed coup to reinstate their voting entitlements, sparking a bloody civil war that ended with the decimation of the vault. When the vault sang its final insult - unlocking the vault doors and praising the citizens for not sacrificing anyone that year (because they were too busy shooting each other) - four of the five survivors committed suicide from the realization that they only passed the Secret Test of Character by failing every other test of basic human decency. The sole survivor begged them to listen to the announcement that they could just leave, even after he personally insulted the Vault's AI and demanded it do their worst to try to make them listen to it (and oh, it did).
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Original Position Fallacy / int_5afbc0cb	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_5afbc0cb	comment	Undertale: Flowey spends most of the game tempting the player character into killing everyone they meet and turning them into an unrepentant murderer, so they can destroy the world, due to his nihilistic Social Darwinist beliefs. If the player actually does so, he'll be much nicer towards them, praise their actions, and consider the two of them kindred spirits, up until he realizes an unrepentant murderer who kills everyone they meet won't exclude him from that.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_5c5077d4	comment	Cain: Bakugo's outlook in life is, to put it simply, "Heroes are winners, villains are losers". Since he's always been protected and privileged by everyone around himself, he thinks himself a winner, and thus, a hero, while Izuku (whom he has bullied for a decade because he is Quirkless) is a loser, and thus, a villain. But the moment Bakugo "loses" (as in, not getting everything he wants in the exact way he wants it) he decides that the person who beat him (by getting something he can't have) is a cheater, a manipulator, and (of course) a villain.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_5c66fff9	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_5c66fff9	comment	Neverwinter Nights 2: The Faceless Man, Big Bad of the Mask Of The Betrayer expansion, was once Akachi, the high priest of the dead god Myrkul, until he renounced his devotion to Myrkul and tried to storm the afterlife to liberate his wife's soul from the Wall of the Faithless. It sounds noble, and to an extent it was, but it is pointed out that Akachi had been gleefully condemning souls to the Wall for decades before his wife ended up there. He knew full well what Myrkul was doing (and what he was doing in Myrkul's service), as well as how corrupt the whole system was; he just didn't care until that corrupt system affected him and someone he cared about.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_5d354f8	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_5d354f8	comment	In Red Dwarf: Back to Earth, a hologram of Science Officer Katerina Bartikovsky appears and says she's the new ship's hologram and Rimmer has to be deactivated. When Rimmer refuses to be deactivated, and flees to 21st century Earth with the others, she pursues him. He asks if killing him wouldn't be murder, and she replies that holograms are already dead, so there is no ethical, moral or legal obstacle to destroying one. So he pushes her into traffic.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_5ec3a015	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_5ec3a015	comment	The Adventures in Wonderland episode "I Am the Walrus" has the Queen of Hearts invoke this trope after the other Wonderlandians shun the Walrus, who recently moved into the neighborhood, because of Fantastic Racism. She throws the Walrus a welcome party and puts up signs declaring that no one else is allowed in. When the other subjects complain, the Queen of Hearts and Alice (who was the Only Sane Man in the situation) point out that they're now feeling just as bad as the Walrus did when they rejected him, as they never considered that they might be the ones judged and treated poorly.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_60d9c81d	comment	In Mutant Storm, Pansy Parkinson spends a lot of time claiming that other girls should be happy and pleased with their place in life once Voldemort takes over. Then, Bellatrix Lestrange gets killed, and Pansy gets a letter demanding she take her place as the Dark Lord's concubine without anyone caring about her opinion. The next day, she's groveling at the feet of the other side.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_61a39969	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_61a39969	comment	In Avengers: Infinity War. Thanos plans to kill half the universe to prevent an Overpopulation Crisis. When Doctor Strange asks how he'll ensure that he doesn't die, Thanos bluntly responds that he won't; the deaths will be entirely random.note To a point: he appears to halve the population of each world individually, rather than have the deaths be randomly distributed across the universe as a whole. His plan also doesn't take collateral damage into consideration, as shown in The Stinger and Avengers: Endgame. However, at another point, Thanos states he will gaze upon a grateful universe, suggesting he knows he'll be around after killing half of the universe. Endgame drives this hypocrisy further, as Thanos succeeds at his plan, but his alternate timeline counterpart is disgusted to learn that the remaining population of the universe does not appreciate the "genius" of his scheme. As such he pledges to wipe out the entire universe and replace it with one that will worship him as their savior forever.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_623f0768	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_623f0768	comment	Batman: Year One: At a dinner party at Carmine Falcone's mansion, Commissioner Loeb assures Falcone and a group of Gotham's elites that Batman is actually good for them in the long run: a vigilante beating up a few street-level thugs and drug dealers helps the city's inhabitants to feel safe, "and the safer they feel, the fewer questions they ask". Then Batman crashes the party and tells the assembled elites that he holds all of them accountable for Gotham's misery, and "none of you are safe." First thing the next morning, Loeb is bellowing at Lt. Gordon:
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Original Position Fallacy / int_6346a57a	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6346a57a	comment	One for All and Eight for the Ninth: Many of the grunt level members of the Meta Liberation Army support the group's quirk supremacy views because it lets them feel special despite their own weak quirks. Re-Destro lampshades that none of them consider that once there are no more Quirkless people, they'll be the ones on the bottom of the totem pole. Furthermore, because the MLA believes a person's value is based on the strength of their Quirk, they have no problem sacrificing hundreds of mooks to benefit their cause.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_663064e3	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_663064e3	comment	In These Words Are True and Faithful, Cassilda advocates for government to constrain others' lives, assuming that she and people like her will be the beneficiaries. Her opponents invoke the same government powers whose expansion she advocates to shut down her pet project.
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These Words Are True and Faithful	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_663064e3
Original Position Fallacy / int_6744d821	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6744d821	comment	In The Owl House, this is why several characters - including Odalia Blight and most of the nine Coven Heads - support Emperor Belos' plans for the Day of Unity despite knowing of its true purpose as a means of committing genocide. They naively assume that Belos will allow them to join him in the "paradise" that the Day of Unity will supposedly create, not realising that Belos fully intends to kill every single witch and demon on the Boiling Isles, without exception.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_68237790	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_68237790	comment	Pathfinder: Defied by the Gray Gardeners, the secretive order of executioners that maintains the Final Blades of Galt—the magical guillotines upon which accused enemies of the Red Revolution are beheaded.note Galt is a Fantasy Counterpart Culture for France at the height of the Reign of Terror. As the only lasting power center amidst the Red Revolution, the Gray Gardeners keep their own identities secret to lessen the risk that the mob might turn on them as well.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_68ff28ca	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_68ff28ca	comment	Silent Hill 3: There's a notebook in the hospital that envisions the writer (most likely Leonard Wolf), as some righteous crusader defending the world from all the "unnecessary people" in it. As Heather reads the journal, she scornfully notes that she'd like to meet the lunatic who wrote it and ask if they think they're "one of the necessary ones".
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Original Position Fallacy / int_6a94b164	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6a94b164	comment	The Beast Arises: After the Astra Militarum, Mechanicus, and every Imperial Fists successor chapter join forces to defeat the ork invasion of Terra, they mount a Military Coup against the High Lords of Terra with the help of the Inquisition and the Adeptus Arbites and appoint Captain Koorland, the Sole Survivor of the Imperial Fists, as Lord Commander of the Imperium. The High Lords are understandably miffed at this, so when Vulkan, Primarch of the Salamanders, is discovered, they try to get him to take over, hoping he will give them their power back. Vulkan agrees to accept the Lord Commandership... and then immediately orders the High Lords to obey Koorland's orders as if they were his own and goes into seclusion.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_6ac55ec7	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6ac55ec7	comment	Dungeons & Dragons: This is a common ploy of the Lawful Evil alignment, inviting people to join a system that benefit the strong at the expense of the weak. The regular adherent is an Asshole Victim who overestimated his strength and is really unhappy with finding himself as one of the despised and exploited weaklings. Similarly, Fiendish Codex II explains this is why someone would willingly sell their soul in a Deal with the Devil — they expect their natural ability or special relationship with their fiendish patron will lead them to swiftly take positions of power and prestige in the diabolic hierarchy after their deaths, allowing them to pursue their mortal ambitions as a mighty pit fiend. Unfortunately for them, as soon as mortal souls arrive in Baator they're tortured until they suffer a Death of Personality and have been twisted into the very least of devils. In the Dark Sun setting's history, the Companions helped the insane Absolute Xenophobe Rajaat execute his genocide of all the "impure" sapient races of Athas, right up until they realized that he wasn't actually human and counted humans among the impure races. Cue a collective Oh, Crap! and hasty ploy to seal his evil in a can.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_6be1f771	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6be1f771	comment	Knight of Salem: Vernal gets incredibly tired with Tyrian's threats to fight her to the death whenever she doesn't do something he wants, and as such calls him out on it. His retort? He's merely following the Branwen Tribe's own rules, and rightfully points out she's upset because she's on the losing end of the argument.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_6c39a620	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6c39a620	comment	Ascendance of a Bookworm: The series' basic concept plays with the trope. Our heroine is reincarnated into a Medieval European Fantasy world, But unlike many other Light Novel protagonists, ends up born to a family of commoners. A knight named Shikza finds himself needing to guard a person of lower status than himself, whom he happens to resent. The only other two people present are of lower status than him, as well. Because of this, Shikza assumes he can do as he pleases with the person he's meant to guard and attacks her. Tables are turned on Shikza when he's reminded that the person who asked him to stand guard is of higher status than him.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_6d7c7f1c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_6d7c7f1c	comment	SomethingPositive has an already-frustrated Davan makes a goth clubber start hitting himself for his desire for "divine Anarchy", giving an object lesson in this trope in the process.*
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Original Position Fallacy / int_7009211c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_7009211c	comment	In the Book of Esther, King Ahasuerus asks his advisor Haman what a good reward would be for someone who had done the king a great service. Haman assumes it's for him and suggests an elaborate display, with the honored person riding the king's horse, wearing the king's robe, and being led by a noble shouting "See what is done for the man the king wishes to honor!" Ahasuerus thinks it's a great idea — and then tells him to go do just that for Mordecai, Haman's hated rival who had foiled a coup attempt against Ahasuerus but was never rewarded properly. And it just gets worse for Haman after that.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_71c01786	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_71c01786	comment	The Odd Couple (1970): In "The Odd Couple Meet Their Host", Felix tries to push Oscar into doing a show about his own messiness, assuring him that people will think it's funny despite Oscar's fear of looking foolish. When Oscar ends up talking about his roommate's neurotic habits, Felix is furious at being humiliated.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_73383fee	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_73383fee	comment	Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc: It eventually turns out the Mastermind had an accomplice but had said accomplice betrayed and killed because despair, and the accomplice never saw it coming. Mukuro Ikusaba was completely loyal to her sister Junko even knowing that Junko was a crazed murderer and helped her set up the killing game so she could betray and murder her classmates, even pretending to be Junko for it to work properly. Junko promptly had Mukuro executed while disguised so she could fake her own death. Just to rub things in, it's noted that Mukuro had Super-Reflexes and could dodge any attack but couldn't get out of her execution because she never thought Junko would kill her, and her last words are "this wasn't supposed to happen."
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Original Position Fallacy / int_75149ccd	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_75149ccd	comment	X-Wing Series: Played for Laughs in Rogue Squadron. At Bror Jace's instigation, the unit holds a mock Court Martial of Ensign Newbie Gavin Darklighter, Jace arguing that he should be "apprenticed" to the highest-scoring pilot (currently himself) on the grounds that he has, as yet, scored only one kill in three engagements. Nawara, a former defense attorney, defends Gavin to Wedge, Tycho, and a bit character, and reaches a "plea deal" where Corran agrees to split his nine kills with Gavin and judge the best and worst pilot by percentages. Wedge then wryly points out that, having been awarded four additional kills in the plea deal, Gavin is no longer the worst pilot in the squadron: Nawara himself, with one kill, is. Wraith Squadron: After ambushing the Wraiths, resulting in Jesmin Ackbar dying and Myn Donos having a PTSD break, the leader of a gang of Space Pirates tries to argue to Wedge Antilles that the battle had taken place in an unclaimed star system, and so there were no laws there and they had the right to defend themselves. Wedge sarcastically agrees and says in that case they were free to go—but if there were no laws, that also meant there were no laws against the Wraiths killing all the pirates and looting their supplies. The pirate leader quickly changes his mind about whether there are any laws in the star system.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_7785278d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_7785278d	comment	BioShock: BioShock: This was a big problem in Rapture. The city's premise is a Hidden Elf Village of pure capitalism, created because Andrew Ryan had a grand image of talented people being able to accomplish things without "parasites" forcing them to give up their stuff to normal people. The only one to spot the obvious problem with this was Frank Fontaine. He notes in an audio diary that the sort of people who would move to Rapture would be people who were already captains of their industry; they hoped that they would be able to resume their regular lifestyle without being hampered by things like taxes and regulations. Only to find out that, as Frank put it, "someone's gotta clean the toilets," and since all the other residents of the city were in the same position they were, that meant most of them were now the ordinary people who had to live pay check to pay check in order to survive. Except now, the regulations that exist to help normal workers weren't there to protect them. The only person who seems to have escaped this entirely was Fontaine himself; not because he didn't exploit others, but because he was already a criminal and just found Rapture an easier target. He wasn't actually in Ryan's target audience, he just found out about Rapture by chance and impersonated someone who did have an invite. The above is also the ultimate reason why Ryan ultimately became his own antithesis. He had genuinely never thought that someone could gain power by courting the working class. He never realized that people who came to Rapture to break the rules would be perfectly fine breaking his rules. And he never considered that someone might outcompete him. When Frank Fontaine gains success by doing all these things, he has a Villainous Breakdown and refuses to accept that, by his own Objectivist principles, Fontaine deserves to rule Rapture more than Andrew does. He then proceeds to use what governmental authority he has against Fontaine, which ends up causing the city to slide into civil war as they realize that Ryan has no compunctions about using his power to bully them and doesn't want a free market but an Andrew Ryan market. This is also discussed in BioShock 2 where you find out the backstory of the railroad that connects the various parts of the city. Ryan and his supporters invested heavily in the railroad, but it was quickly upstaged by the invention of the bathysphere and the railroad went bankrupt. Ryan's followers never considered that their own investments could go sour and were confronted by the fact that they were about to find themselves broke and on the bottom of the economic and social system of Rapture. Faced with losing his power base, Ryan forced a bank bailout for the railroad, which saved the investors' fortunes but destroyed the savings of everyone else. Rapture's economy went into a downward spiral, which resulted in the civil war that wrecked the city. While not as prevalent, the fallacy is also reflected in Bioshock Infinite regarding Comstock's flying paradise for the American People. Fink realized that none of the white, wealthy, religious patrons who'd flock to Comstock's city as "God's Kingdom" would be eager to do manual labor or menial tasks to maintain the 'heavenly' city, so he brought in "Cherubs for every chore", i.e. a massive foreign labor force that would eventually revolt and become the Vox Populi. This didn't end well for anybody.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_791fca44	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_791fca44	comment	BioShock: This was a big problem in Rapture. The city's premise is a Hidden Elf Village of pure capitalism, created because Andrew Ryan had a grand image of talented people being able to accomplish things without "parasites" forcing them to give up their stuff to normal people. The only one to spot the obvious problem with this was Frank Fontaine. He notes in an audio diary that the sort of people who would move to Rapture would be people who were already captains of their industry; they hoped that they would be able to resume their regular lifestyle without being hampered by things like taxes and regulations. Only to find out that, as Frank put it, "someone's gotta clean the toilets," and since all the other residents of the city were in the same position they were, that meant most of them were now the ordinary people who had to live pay check to pay check in order to survive. Except now, the regulations that exist to help normal workers weren't there to protect them. The only person who seems to have escaped this entirely was Fontaine himself; not because he didn't exploit others, but because he was already a criminal and just found Rapture an easier target. He wasn't actually in Ryan's target audience, he just found out about Rapture by chance and impersonated someone who did have an invite.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_791fca45	comment	This is also discussed in BioShock 2 where you find out the backstory of the railroad that connects the various parts of the city. Ryan and his supporters invested heavily in the railroad, but it was quickly upstaged by the invention of the bathysphere and the railroad went bankrupt. Ryan's followers never considered that their own investments could go sour and were confronted by the fact that they were about to find themselves broke and on the bottom of the economic and social system of Rapture. Faced with losing his power base, Ryan forced a bank bailout for the railroad, which saved the investors' fortunes but destroyed the savings of everyone else. Rapture's economy went into a downward spiral, which resulted in the civil war that wrecked the city.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_794d9734	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_794d9734	comment	In the Mutant Chronicles book Ilian, there are two short-stories on this theme. Humans who joined the cult of Ilian because they wanted to become the exploiters rather than the exploited. And their futures are so bright, since Ilian will smile upon them forever... until they fail or get backstabbed by each other, that is. Suckers.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_7cea4fb2	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_7cea4fb2	comment	In the novelization of Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019), the main human antagonist Alan Jonah genuinely doesn't realize once he decides to let King Ghidorah destroy the world that he and his men will surely die with everyone else in that scenario regardless of how well they hide themselves underground. He says that he and his men will live like kings once Ghidorah's apocalypse has finished, and Madison mentally calls out the absurdity of such a notion.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_7e850e47	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_7e850e47	comment	Bravely Default: The Evil One, who is revealed to be the Treacherous Quest Giver Airy, looks down on humans and mocks them for being blindly obedient, comparing them to livestock to be slaughtered. She is shocked however when her master, Ouroboros, decides to eat her after she fails to kill the heroes too many times, with her master even justifying it with the same logic.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_861b3b3a	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_861b3b3a	comment	Modern MoGal has this light-hearted example in which a woman's question of what hairstyle her husband likes has his response followed by the woman and their daughter applying the suggested hairstyle to his long hair instead of the woman's shorter hair.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_885e1bec	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_885e1bec	comment	Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality: This is the one thing that pragmatic and bitterly cynical Professor Quirrell actually likes about democracy, that it brings Laser-Guided Karma to people who don't think it through.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_89daf5f5	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_89daf5f5	comment	Sue Thomas: F.B.Eye: In "Secret Agent Man", Myles takes steps to get a height limit in his neighborhood repealed because it will allow him to keep his new flagpole and get one over on his Sitcom Arch-Nemesis, Webber, who challenged him about it. The rule is lifted...only for Myles to get a basketball in his flowers. Webber put up a basketball hoop which previously would have been outlawed by the height limit.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_8a3a1edd	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_8a3a1edd	comment	In an episode of Saved by the Bell, Zack winds up learning a lesson this way. He's allowed to choose the teams for an athletic competition and is told to make them balanced, so he puts all the jock-types on one team, assuming he'll be the captain of that team, and all the nerd-types on the other. The teacher, then explicitly asks him again if he is sure that the teams are balanced, appoints him as the captain of the nerd team when he said yes, saying something to the effect of "Yes, I let you pick the teams, but I pick the captains."
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Original Position Fallacy / int_8ba4613a	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_8ba4613a	comment	In Death Note, Light Yagami spends much of the series as The Social Darwinist, believing that anyone he assassinated with the Death Note deserved it. Naturally he doesn't believe the same of himself. In the manga, at least, he screams and pleads with anyone to try to extend his own life once Ryuk writes Light's name into his own Death Note. In other versions, once he's been identified as the wielder of the Death Note, Light makes a run for it.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_8d0c224c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_8d0c224c	comment	Harry Is a Dragon, and That's OK: Professor Umbridge puts up a number of blatantly and aggressively pro-human and authoritarian posters around Hogwarts — without putting her name on them, so even Hermione feels no qualms about pulling them down. When Professor Umbridge complains to the Headmaster about it, he agrees that letting people put up anonymous posters might be worth a try — so he announces that anyone can put up posters, and that people should please not take them down. Umbridge soon has reason to regret her request, as large numbers of much more creative and impressive posters appear in support of the "unusually shaped" students, including many that express thanks to them for how helpful they've been, along with some that poke fun at Umbridge herself.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_8d3ab19c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_8d3ab19c	comment	Rise of the Third Power: Prince Gage initially bought into Emperor Noraskov's rhetoric of how some people are chosen as fate and others are disfavored by fate, and that the former group is morally superior to the latter regardless of circumstances. As a result, he's complicit in Noraskov's purge of dissenters and undesirables. He is eventually labeled a traitor for stopping the assassination of his fiancÃ©e, Princess Arielle, making him disfavored by fate according to this ideology.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_8ec33a88	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_8ec33a88	comment	Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Consul N is hit with this hard. After he imprisons Ouroborus and forces them to wait out the last month of Mio's life before Homecoming in an effort to break his reincarnation/clone Noah, it's revealed that his wife, Consul M, used her powers to swap bodies with Mio to both save her doppleganger's life and end her own. This leads N to have a complete mental breakdown as he realises that the woman he loved died and starts ranting how Noah couldn't save her despite that being his entire plan to torture Noah in the first place, and leaves him in a catatonic state while Noah's resolve is stronger than ever.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_90e2f673	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_90e2f673	comment	In BattleTech, Brett Andrews, Khan of Clan Steel Viper, was elected ilKhan of the Clans and declared his intent to purge them of the "taint" of the Inner Sphere. This led to the Wars of Reaving, which saw the destruction of many of the Clans and several others being forced to flee to the Inner Sphere. Finally, he declared that all the tainted Clans had been destroyed, only for Khan Stanislov Nâ€™Buta of Clan Star Adder to remind him that there was one Clan that had been tainted by its time in the Inner Sphere left: Clan Steel Viper. Andrews challenged him to an unarmed duel, then killed him with a laser pistol, violating both the prohibition of carrying weapons into the Clan Council and the honor of the duel, which the other assembled Khans used as evidence that N'Buta was right. The Steel Vipers promptly became the final Clan to be destroyed for being tainted by the Inner Sphere; Andrews himself, meanwhile, was beaten to death by Star Adder saKhan Hannibal Banacek. For added irony, the Steel Vipers were the only Clan that had actually occupied a part of the Inner Sphere that were wiped out in the Wars of Reaving, as all the other Clans that invaded the Inner Sphere either survived (Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Wolf, Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Diamond Shark, Clan Nova Cat) or were destroyed prior to the Wars of Reaving (Clan Smoke Jaguar, Clan Ice Hellion). The other Clans that were destroyed were ones that had never gone to the Inner Sphere.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_90f42a9b	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_90f42a9b	comment	In The Wheel of Time series, women who can Channel are captured by the Seanchan, who use magical collars called a'dam to break them to slavery. The thing is, it takes a certain amount of magical potential to hold the leash on a Channeler; at one point, when the main characters free Egwene from her captor, they leave her torturer in an a'dam, possibly to be made a slave herself.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_959e84f	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_959e84f	comment	Dragon Quest VI: One optional area in the dreamworld is a "Groundhog Day" Loop of a king who decided to deal with the threat of the Archfiend by summoning an even bigger demon to kill it. The idea that they wouldn't remain in control past the first five seconds of the ritual didn't occur to them at all. If you actually fight and defeat this demon quickly enough, it turns out the plan wasn't as stupid as it seems: the demon cheerfully destroys the Big Bad in a humiliating Curb-Stomp Battle without taking any damage. The problem being that the demon will only respect anybody strong enough to beat him, and if you're strong enough to beat him that means you're also strong enough to Curb Stomp the Big Bad even without his help.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_95d534e1	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_95d534e1	comment	The Dragon Prince: When King Harrow was crowned, he told his wife about a dream he had where Lady Justice came to him and offered him a gift. He took her blindfold, and she explained how he should try to imagine he was not born with the wealth or position he has, or even the culture or skin color. Later in the episode, he tries to make good on this promise by offering supplies to a nearby kingdom suffering a famine — they don't have much to spare, so the same amount of people will starve, but half of them will be from his kingdom instead of all from his ally. However, he stumbles a bit when his court wizard offers him an alternative; kill a powerful magical creature and use its heart to bring fertility to the land. His wife points out that they don't even know if the creature is intelligent. They ultimately go through with it and it works, but it kicks off a Cycle of Revenge that results in Harrow's wife dead, the queens of the allied kingdom dead, himself dead years later, and brings the land within inches of war.
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The Dragon Prince	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_95d534e1
Original Position Fallacy / int_985806ed	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_985806ed	comment	Truth and Consequences: Marinette accepted Master Fu's insistence upon protecting their identities and the secrets of the Miraculouses as much as possible, even when that meant Chat Noir was Locked Out of the Loop. After all, it was "safer that way", right...? When the other Miraculous Masters are forced to reveal more details during the heroes' Darkest Hour, however, she's taken aback to learn that Master Fu was lying to her as well, and that the backstory he'd shared with her was only Metaphorically True at best.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_9f89a5f0	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_9f89a5f0	comment	This tends to be a problem with online trading in the PokÃ©mon games. Players will often put up a freshly-caught and untrained Mon for offer while demanding you give them legendaries or max-levels in return, a trade they would've never accepted if made by someone else (a problem exacerbated in early iterations by a search UI that wasn't designed well enough to let players screen out bad offers properly). The addition of Wonder Trading, in which you trade PokÃ©mon with a random player without knowing what you're going to get, has only made this worse, with everyone assuming THEY will be the one of the lucky ones.
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PokÃ©mon (Franchise)	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_9f89a5f0
Original Position Fallacy / int_a32b6a64	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_a32b6a64	comment	Discussed in The West Wing. After a motion to strengthen the Estate Tax / Death Tax is defeated in Congress, President Bartlett muses that the problem with The American Dream is that it makes everyone worry about how they'll protect their assets once they become rich.
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The West Wing	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_a32b6a64
Original Position Fallacy / int_a52d5113	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_a52d5113	comment	"The Three Little Men in the Wood": After his son's baptism, the king asks his mother-in-law what should be done to someone who drags another person out of their bed and throws them in the water. The old woman answers, "The wretch deserves nothing better than to be taken and put in a barrel stuck full of nails, and rolled downhill into the water." And so it is done.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_a5549ed0	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_a5549ed0	comment	In The Bible: In the Book of Esther, King Ahasuerus asks his advisor Haman what a good reward would be for someone who had done the king a great service. Haman assumes it's for him and suggests an elaborate display, with the honored person riding the king's horse, wearing the king's robe, and being led by a noble shouting "See what is done for the man the king wishes to honor!" Ahasuerus thinks it's a great idea — and then tells him to go do just that for Mordecai, Haman's hated rival who had foiled a coup attempt against Ahasuerus but was never rewarded properly. And it just gets worse for Haman after that. In 2 Samuel chapter 12, the prophet Nathan invokes this to guilt-trip King David after learning that David had Uriah killed and took Uriah's wife Bathsheba for himself in the previous chapter. Nathan tells a story about a rich man with many sheep, whose neighbor is a poor man with only one lamb, and the rich man steals his neighbor's lamb and slaughters it for his dinner. David angrily says that such a man deserves to be put to death. Nathan replies "You are such a man!" David isn't killed, but he is horrified at what he's done and immediately sets about trying to repent, and the Kingdom of Israel is cursed to fall as a consequence of his misdeed (first by the split between Israel and Judah in the reign of his grandson Rehoboam, then by the Babylonian conquest).
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The Bible	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_a5549ed0
Original Position Fallacy / int_a5e3b5b5	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_a5e3b5b5	comment	Prez (2015): Boss Smiley and his fellow corporate cads scheme to get a bill passed that will enable them to copyright the DNA of living things, but are coerced into reversing this when Beth retaliates by having trillionaire Fred Wayne acquire the rights to their DNA and demand they either pay him royalties whenever they take action or die.
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Prez (2015) (Comic Book)	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_a5e3b5b5
Original Position Fallacy / int_a78cc92f	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_a78cc92f	comment	In Chick Tracts, one of the most common types of Straw Loser is the guy who isn't afraid of Hell. One variant of this is that he believes that hell exists and that it is a horrible place for the damned, but also believes that he'll be one of Satan's demons reigning in hell. His fate invariably turns out to be much crueler. (The two other main variants are those who don't believe that hell exists and those who think that it's not such a bad place.)
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Original Position Fallacy / int_af88e831	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_af88e831	comment	In 2 Samuel chapter 12, the prophet Nathan invokes this to guilt-trip King David after learning that David had Uriah killed and took Uriah's wife Bathsheba for himself in the previous chapter. Nathan tells a story about a rich man with many sheep, whose neighbor is a poor man with only one lamb, and the rich man steals his neighbor's lamb and slaughters it for his dinner. David angrily says that such a man deserves to be put to death. Nathan replies "You are such a man!" David isn't killed, but he is horrified at what he's done and immediately sets about trying to repent, and the Kingdom of Israel is cursed to fall as a consequence of his misdeed (first by the split between Israel and Judah in the reign of his grandson Rehoboam, then by the Babylonian conquest).
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Original Position Fallacy / int_b30ae4db	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_b30ae4db	comment	Game of Thrones: Cersei Lannister gets hit with this HARD in Season 5. With her power and control waning, she allies with the radical religious sect known as the Sparrows to oust her political rivals in House Tyrell. While she has a brief moment of smugness over this seeming triumph, she is utterly blindsided when the leader of the sect, the High Sparrow, has her arrested on very similar grounds to which she incriminated the Tyrells. While it's not done with any specific malice - he seems to genuinely believe in equal treatment, both good and bad - Cersei's inability to perceive consequences for her actions is arguably her biggest Fatal Flaw throughout the series.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_b3a3fa47	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_b3a3fa47	comment	Babylon 5: "Infection": An archaeologist recovers a Bio-Augmentation module for Super Soldiers from an Advanced Ancient Acropolis. The weapon was designed for use against an Alien Invasion, but its target selection programming was done by ideological zealots who also wanted to "purify" their own race. As it turned out, none of their own species, ideologues included, could meet the high standard of purity that was set. "By Any Means Necessary" centers on a dockworkers' strike after a fatal accident in the docks. The negotiator sent by the government, Orin Zento, leans heavily on the legal authority he has, refusing to negotiate or discuss the grievances from the union representative: he issues demands, then invokes the Rush Act, granting Commander Sinclair authority to resolve the dispute "by any means necessary"—assuming the commander will arrest and replace the striking dockworkers. Instead, Sinclair uses his new authority to reallocate money from the military budget to meet the unionâ€™s demands, upsetting Zento who is now the one being overridden by legal authority. (The government was reportedly furious, but public opinion was on the side of the union so they let it slide.) "A Late Delivery from Avalon": Marcus Cole has a brief monologue on the subject.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_b3f3b0b7	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_b3f3b0b7	comment	Dyztopia: Post-Human RPG: Detritus-12 is programmed to believe that non-humans are inferior in order to make her more compliant with President Zazz's plan to create a human supremacist society. However, Akari points out that androids like Detritus-12 will be considered a second class citizen who can be disposed of at any time.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_b40513b1	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_b40513b1	comment	In one Foxtrot story arc, Jason is afflicted with poison oak and torments his older sister Paige by telling her that he touched all her stuff. Her mother Andy tells her she's being ridiculous, because the odds of poison oak being spread that way are virtually nil.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_b5346b9f	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_b5346b9f	comment	White Sheep (RWBY): Most of the people who oppose making peace with the Grimm have never been directly involved with fighting them off themselves, and have no concept of just how bad the conflict is. Nor do they intend to change that; they're operating off the presumption that the Hunters will ensure their continued safety. Meanwhile, many of said Huntsmen and Huntresses are the most willing to broker a potential treaty in order to bring the Hopeless War to an end.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_b6c8dea	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_b6c8dea	comment	There's one Non Sequitur arc wherein Danae visits an alternate reality where every person on earth had one wish come true. She and her alternate come across a mockable politician, and the alternate Danae explains that he'd wished that slavery would become legal again. Danae then asks "And what about the guy who owns him?" The alternate says that he made the same wish.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_bad6ce79	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_bad6ce79	comment	In the first X-Men film, Magneto attempts to invoke this trope with a machine that can turn humans into mutants; the idea is to use it on a gathering of world leaders, many of whom have anti-mutant sentiment, to show them what it's like to be persecuted and feared. However, the machine only works using Magneto's own mutant gift, and the process nearly kills him, so he kidnaps the power-copying Rogue to forcibly transfer his ability into her body and use her as the fuel source. Wolverine calls Magneto out for falling into the same line of thinking he claims he's trying to avoid: if he really cared about mutant rights, he would willingly sacrifice himself in the machine.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_bcadd7cb	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_bcadd7cb	comment	Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy Battles: Many who devote themselves to the Gods of Chaos do so for personal gain, with the most ambitious hoping to be rewarded with immortality as daemon princes. Unfortunately for them, their patrons are just as likely to ignore them, drive them insane, give them what they want in a cruelly ironic way, or subject them to awful transformations. Many instances of Chaos Spawn were once up-and-coming champions of Chaos until they washed out and mutated beyond control, becoming little more than feral attack-animals herded into battle by their former subordinates. In 40K, the fall of the Eldar was brought about by the psychic Space Elves' continuous hedonism creating a new Chaos god/dess in the Warp. Some pleasure cults actually did their best to accelerate this process, believing they'd be rewarded with an eternity of new sensations. The Dark Eldar are now a race of Klingon Promotion-enforcing combat sadomasochists who need to hide in the Webway lest the Chaos god Slaanesh devour their souls, and can emerge into realspace only long enough to conduct quick raids for slaves. In Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, mutants are hated and feared for their obvious taint of Chaos; but one book points out that, while many denizens of the Empire have little problem condemning mutants if they're someone they don't know (or like), attitudes change fairly quickly once they or their loved ones experience mutation themselves. In particular, families that experience the birth of mutant children usually decide to either hide the baby or abandon them in the woods, rather than kill them or consign them to the witch hunters as is their duty.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_bee4e765	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_bee4e765	comment	Shirley Jackson's townspeople in "The Lottery" are perfectly fine with the annual Lottery of Doom that will end in a Human Sacrifice (it's traditional!). Only the victim protests, and only when it becomes clear that her life is at stake.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c1ef941d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c1ef941d	comment	How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom: Amidonia's Prince Gaius VIII attempts some Loophole Abuse of the Mankind Declaration's ban on military conquest for the duration of the conflict with the Demon Lord: he argues that since Elfrieden is not a signatory, then trying to reconquer some of the territory Amidonia lost in their last war is not illegal. King Souma Kazuya soundly defeats Amidonia, killing Gaius in action and occupying his capital, so his heir Julius goes running to the Gran Chaos Empire (the western superpower that backs the Declaration). The Imperial heir apparent agrees to negotiate on their behalf to end Souma's occupation to save the credibility of her sister's treaty... and then, after negotiating with Souma, informs Julius he can either accept Souma's perfectly reasonable demand for war reparations and handover of war criminals for prosecution, or else be kicked out of the treaty entirely and have to risk other neighboring countries making the same Loophole Abuse argument to prey on a now much-weaker Amidonia. Julius takes the deal. In a scene reminiscent of Henry V Act II, Scene 2, while deciding the sentences of convicted traitors Castor and Carla Vargas, Souma asks the jury of nobles what should be done with them. Two of them suggest clemency and are escorted out of the room. The others call for the Vargas' heads—and are promptly decapitated for their own treasonous activities by Souma's Black Cat ninjas who had infiltrated the room. Souma then sentences the Vargases to enslavement, while the two nobles who called for clemency are given jobs in Souma's administration.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c2297a9c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c2297a9c	comment	Judge Dredd: The worldwide nuclear war behind most of the setting's problems was started by the American president, certain as he was that the US's radiation shields would prevent fallout from affecting them. He was disbelievingly disabused of this notion after the nukes started flying.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c35714d6	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c35714d6	comment	Blackadder: An offscreen version in "The Archbishop", where Edmund, now the Archbishop of Canterbury, must convince a dying nobleman with no heirs to leave his lands to the Crown rather than the Church (which, according to the Church, will send him to hell). Edmund (who was appointed archbishop after his father King Richard IV had his predecessor murdered when he convinced another dying nobleman to leave his lands to the Church) points out that heaven is exceedingly boring, while hell is filled with the kind of people who appreciated the finer things in life, such as pillage, adultery and torture. The nobleman enthusiastically declares he wants to go to hell and bequeaths his lands to the Crown, with no word on whether he ended up among the torturers or the tortured.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c43df4d8	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c43df4d8	comment	In the Doctor Who episode "The Day of the Doctor": The Doctor (three of them, actually â€” the War Doctor, Ten, and Eleven, to be exact) activate a memory-erasure device on the heads of UNIT and the shape-shifting Zygons to negotiate a peace treaty to make everyone forget who's a human and who's an alien, forcing them to consider this trope's effects, since the head of UNIT activated a bomb that would set off a nuclear warhead, resulting in the destruction of them and the Zygons, along with the collection of dangerous alien artifacts and all of London.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c6ebe632	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c6ebe632	comment	Two Letters, a Spiritual Successor story by the same author, also invokes this trope with Mayor Bourgeois. He wanted a Ladybug who could be bribed into supporting his corrupt activities, but he forgot that he's not the only person around who wants Ladybug's endorsement, and that the original Ladybug's honesty was the only thing stopping her from being paid by those other people to destroy him. So, when Marinette retires and her Sketchy Successor also known as Lila Rossi takes over and begins accepting bribes, Bourgeois finds himself going broke making bigger and bigger payments just to keep her from being bought by someone else who wants her to denounce him.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c75d67d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c75d67d	comment	Person of Interest: In "Nothing to Hide", tech CEO Wayne Kruger defends "Big Data" with the argument that if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear from your personal information being available on the Internet. During a presentation on the subject, the radical libertarian group Vigilance hacks the projector and publicly exposes Kruger's own secrets, including that he was cheating on his wife, which sends him into a Villainous Breakdown.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_c9777ec1	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_c9777ec1	comment	Night Gallery: In "Deliveries in the Back", Victorian professor Dr. Fletcher needs corpses for his anatomy classes, and he doesn't really care how his providers get them, even after his future father-in-law questions him about it. He argues that the knowledge is more important, and that one life isn't too big a sacrifice if it saves many others. The segment ends with his horrified discovery that the providers killed his fiancÃ©e when he tasked them with getting a female cadaver in a hurry.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_ca5d97f1	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_ca5d97f1	comment	Monty Python's Flying Circus: "Spam": In the "Ypres 1914" sketch, a British unit runs short of rations, and their officer (Graham Chapman) determines that one of their number will have to commit suicide to make up the difference. John Cleese's character volunteers on the grounds he's got no arms, but the officer insists on Drawing Straws. He is clearly not best pleased to draw the short straw. Twice.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_cbae024e	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_cbae024e	comment	Lampooned in a widely-shared tweet by Adrian Bott:
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Original Position Fallacy / int_d01e2fe6	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_d01e2fe6	comment	Played for laughs in L.A. Story. Harris starts a casual relationship with ditzy clothing store clerk SanDeE*, who explains that her boyfriend pushed for them to be in an open relationship so that even though they're together, they can still date other people. "But it backfires on him sometimes," she adds, and points him out by the bar. Late in the film, she tells Harris that said boyfriend now wants to go exclusive, she suspects because he couldn't get any other dates.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_d5bd2a20	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_d5bd2a20	comment	The Book of Mormon: When Laman asks his relative Laban to give him the brass plates containing their genealogy and scriptures, Laban angrily accuses him of being a robber and tries to have him killed on the spot. However, when Laman flees, returns with his brothers, and offers all their family's wealth in exchange for the plates, Laban gets greedy and takes all their valuables by force without handing the plates over, making him a robber. God later arranges for the youngest brother, Nephi, to come across Laban passed out drunk, and tells Nephi that it's acceptable to kill Laban.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_d736423c	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_d736423c	comment	The Rigel Black Chronicles: Daphne Greengrass is a proud pureblood — until an ancestry potion reveals that her mother had an affair with a muggle-born wizard and she's actually a half-blood, causing her to be expelled from Hogwarts. Harry calls for compassion and understanding from her friends (some of whom are rather scathing of Daphne), pointing out that it could in theory happen to them too.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_d7943b1b	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_d7943b1b	comment	In one of the books of Guardians of Ga'Hoole, the main character Nyroc is born to Nyra, head of the "Pure Ones", an organization of owls made up of the family Tytonidae (the barn owls) whose goal is to eliminate the Guardians of Ga'hoole and purify the owl kingdoms. One of Nyroc's friends is Phillip, a member of species of Tytonidae called greater sooty owls. When he and his father were starving, they decided to join the organization as new recruits in hopes of a better life. Unfortunately, as Phillip discovers, not only are the Pure Ones racist towards other owls, but discriminate among their own kind based on feather color, with the white Tyto albas at the top of the hierarchy. Phillip (or Dustytuft as the other owls called him) ended up on the lower ranks of the social ladder, just above lesser sooty owls, forced to do the most menial and worst of jobs.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_d9673ef7	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_d9673ef7	comment	In The Handmaid's Tale, some women advocated for Gilead before it became a reality: Offred lives with a man whose wife, Serena Joy, had a career telling women that they would be happiest as wives. Needless to say, she isn't happy after her career is forcibly ended and she becomes just another wife.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_da448595	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_da448595	comment	The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks: Chancellor Cole's plan rests on finding a suitable host for his master Malladus, but he breaks down in fear once Malladus chooses him after losing Zelda.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_e0c93337	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_e0c93337	comment	The War of the Worlds was partially written as a critique of Social Darwinism. Many people who believed that superior people should be in power would be extremely unhappy if a superior race of alien invaders took over.
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Original Position Fallacy / int_e694aadb	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_e694aadb	comment	Ciaphas Cain: In one book, the Imperial Guard command is hampered by the local aristocracy because the death of the governor left no central authority (but plenty of semi-legitimate heirs) and any single one taking charge would be called usurpation by the others, preventing any cooperation. Lord General Zyvan accepts the offer from one of them (who has no claim to the throne) to install martial law, which is accepted... and his first order is for the civilians to kindly leave the war room.
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Ciaphas Cain	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_e694aadb
Original Position Fallacy / int_e9732f44	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_e9732f44	comment	A thread on StarDestroyer.net's forum concluded that of various fictional worlds, Star Trek's United Federation of Planets is probably the best one to live in, on grounds that, since you're far more likely to be some random average guy than one of the heroes of The 'Verse, the Federation's standard of living has a lot to recommend it. Ironically, despite this, the site has sharply criticized Trekkies who wish the real future turns out like Star Trek, since the backstory makes it very clear that the 21st century is a time of complete societal collapse, with constant world wars and tyranny, and conditions reverting, all over the planet, to those of the worst of the worst Third World countries. Trek is one of those settings where things get much worse before they get better, and the fans forget that the only reason the 21st century doesnâ€™t lead to a millennium-long dark age is because Zefram Cochrane makes contact with Vulcan, who restore Earth back to its prosperous state, but not before the viewers Longing for Fictionland would have suffered and likely died through many catastrophes in a row.
Original Position Fallacy / int_e9732f44	featureApplicability	1.0
Original Position Fallacy / int_e9732f44	featureConfidence	1.0
StarDestroyer.net (Website)	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_e9732f44
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea04bc18	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea04bc18	comment	In the Nemesis Series, man-hating female mage Graywytch casts a spell to kill off all men, defined for the purposes of the spell as having a Y chromosome. She nearly dies herself, which Danny (a trans-girl and target of Graywytchâ€™s transphobic tendencies) theorizes that she's actually intersex, i.e. genetically XY male with androgen insensitivity. Though Graywytch refuses to accept this explanation, insisting she accidentally Cast From Hitpoints instead. It's never explicitly confirmed which is true, but the book seems to lean to Danny's explanation.
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea04bc18	featureApplicability	1.0
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea04bc18	featureConfidence	1.0
Nemesis Series	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_ea04bc18
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea4f62db	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea4f62db	comment	In the Family Guy episode "Padre de Familia", Peter, driven by Patriotic Fervor, demands that his company institute a policy of only hiring American citizens in order to weed out illegal immigrant workers. When the policy is passed, he approaches his mother to ask for a copy of his birth certificate, only for her to reveal that she was across the border at the time of his birth, and he was born in Mexico... and since he can't provide a birth certificate that demonstrates his citizenship of the USA, he gets fired as a result of the policy he helped implement.
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea4f62db	featureApplicability	1.0
Original Position Fallacy / int_ea4f62db	featureConfidence	1.0
Family Guy	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_ea4f62db
Original Position Fallacy / int_eb5d7301	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_eb5d7301	comment	Amphibia: In "Toad to Redemption", Toadie was really eager for Toadstool to get the new job at Toad Tower, even complaining directly on why he would choose not to do it. But then he was told that he will have a new assistant once he was in charge of Toad Tower and Toadie will not come along, something Toadie didn't seem to have considered, after that, he was happy that Toadstool had decided to stay.
Original Position Fallacy / int_eb5d7301	featureApplicability	1.0
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Amphibia	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_eb5d7301
Original Position Fallacy / int_eed321b1	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_eed321b1	comment	Ars Magica: Some diabolists are Hell Seekers in the belief that their loyalty to Satan will get them promoted to devilhood when they die, so they can be the torturers instead of the tormented. Hell offers no such accommodations.
Original Position Fallacy / int_eed321b1	featureApplicability	1.0
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Ars Magica (Tabletop Game)	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_eed321b1
Original Position Fallacy / int_f00d733b	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_f00d733b	comment	In Book of the Dead, a book for the New World of Darkness (mostly Geist: The Sin-Eaters and Mage: The Awakening), all the underworld realms presented are designed so the gamemaster can play them this way. It's outright encouraged in general, and one of the realms is designed so it's hard to NOT play it this way. This realm is called Oppia, and is a place of abundant soul-energy in the form of delicious food. The rulers are very generous and hospitable, and their rules seem simple enough. Sure, the system runs on enslavement of souls, but those idiots are bad guests who broke the rules. Seems easy enough to accept... until you realize how very easy it actually is to break the rules. Including by accident.
Original Position Fallacy / int_f00d733b	featureApplicability	1.0
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New World of Darkness (Tabletop Game)	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_f00d733b
Original Position Fallacy / int_fc35f17d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_fc35f17d	comment	Knight Eternal: The people of Zamaste worship Zamas in the hopes that he'll spare them, but it's clear that Zamas has no intention of doing so and that he hates all mortals equally.
Original Position Fallacy / int_fc35f17d	featureApplicability	1.0
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Knight Eternal (Video Game)	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_fc35f17d
Original Position Fallacy / int_fe50cd0e	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_fe50cd0e	comment	In H-E Double Hockey Sticks, a hockey player obsessed with winning the Stanley Cup makes a Deal with the Devil so that his team wins the cup. Yay, right? Nope. The demon's boss then has him traded to the worst team in the NHL. So now, not only will he not get the trophy, he's also sold his soul for nothing. Luckily, said demon has a change of heart and points out a loophole - if another team wins the cup, the contract is null and void. So the player has to beat his team of losers into shape in order to win the cup and regain his soul.
Original Position Fallacy / int_fe50cd0e	featureApplicability	1.0
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H-E Double Hockey Sticks	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_fe50cd0e
Original Position Fallacy / int_fe5f7909	type	Original Position Fallacy
Original Position Fallacy / int_fe5f7909	comment	Guards! Guards!: The Brotherhood of Ebon Night enthusiastically agree with their master's wish for a return to the "good old days" when Ankh-Morpork was ruled by a king, who enforced "justice" that rewarded the deserving and punished the undeserving, taking for granted that in any such regime they themselves would be sorted into the first group; they thus embrace their Supreme Grand Master's plan to magically summon a dragon to wreak a little havoc in the city and pave the way for the return of their Puppet King. They regret the lives lost, but tell themselves that it is in service to the greater good, until the dragon incinerates their puppet king, their headquarters, and almost the entirety of their order inside it.
Original Position Fallacy / int_fe5f7909	featureApplicability	1.0
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Guards! Guards!	hasFeature	Original Position Fallacy / int_fe5f7909

The following is a list of statements referring to the current page from other pages.

Original Position Fallacy	processingCategory2	Fairy Tale Tropes
Original Position Fallacy	processingCategory2	Index Backfire
Original Position Fallacy	processingCategory2	Logical Fallacies
Original Position Fallacy	processingCategory2	Philosophy Tropes
Original Position Fallacy	processingCategory2	Selfishness Tropes
Original Position Fallacy	processingCategory2	Sociology Tropes
Cross Ange / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Age of Bronze (Comic Book) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Batman: Year One (Comic Book) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Chick Tracts (Comic Book) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Dark One (Comic Book) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Low (Comic Book) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Prez (2015) (Comic Book) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
FoxTrot (Comic Strip) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Ancienverse / Fan Fic / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Harry Is a Dragon, and That's OK (Fanfic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Harry Is A Dragon, And That's Okay (Fanfic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Knight of Salem (Fanfic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Karma of Lies (Fanfic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
White Sheep (RWBY) (Fanfic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Bull Durham / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Infinity Pool / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
L.A. Story / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Flying Man / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Wall Street / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Book of Esther / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Books of Samuel / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Guards! Guards! / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
High School Prodigies Have It Easy Even in Another World / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Jingo / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Tales of the Magic Land / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Black Swan / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Boys from Brazil / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Company Novels / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Goose Girl / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Handmaid's Tale / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Lottery / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Other Boleyn Girl / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Rising of the Shield Hero / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Three Little Men in the Wood / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
X-Wing Series / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Curb Your Enthusiasm / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Night Gallery / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Penn & Teller: Bullshit! / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Dropout / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Handmaid's Tale / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
W817 / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Warrior (2019) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Witcher: Game of Imagination (Tabletop Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Warhammer (Tabletop Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Henry V (Theatre) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Rope (Theatre) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
The Merchant of Venice (Theatre) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
ANNO: Mutationem (Video Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
BioShock (Video Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Dyztopia: Post-Human RPG (Video Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Knight Eternal (Video Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Rhythm Doctor (Video Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Tales of Crestoria (Video Game) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Uncle Al (Web Video) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Dumb_RWBY (Webcomic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Leftover Soup (Webcomic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Penny Arcade (Webcomic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal (Webcomic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Scandinavia and the World (Webcomic) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Reddit (Website) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
StarDestroyer.net (Website) / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Ed, Edd n Eddy's Big Picture Show / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy
Superman vs. the Elite / int_7503483d	type	Original Position Fallacy

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