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Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids!
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When a character (primarily in dramas) is asked to go beyond their job and help with "a cause", the character sometimes refuses, and afterwards the other person asks, "What's happened to you?" or "Since when did you stop caring?" the answer sometimes comes down to the character saying, "I grew up," implying that the character "grew" from a Wide-Eyed Idealist to an embittered cynic. It's also often used by the Anti-Hero or Straw Nihilist to mock the idealistic methods and beliefs of the Ideal Hero and his ilk; such naive and childish wishful thinking has no place in the grown-up, paranoid, cynical world that the Anti Hero lives in. Alternatively, a Retired Badass might have genuinely gotten too old or set in retirement to do what's being asked of them. In Real Life, this attitude is often fuelled by Disneyfication: many works which fall on the idealistic end of the idealism vs cynicism scale tend to have simplistic plots which are light in tone and devoid of particularly dark subject matter. Consequently, said works tend to be marketed at children and more general audiences, on account of there being little mature content to justify a restricted rating. Conversely, cynical media with more controversial plots often feature grim and uncomfortable subject matter which is solely intended for mature or adult audiences (or to attract controversy from Moral Guardians). Thus, there can be a tendency, especially among more cynical people, to associate idealism with childish or simplistic thinking—something to outgrow, rather than an actual, legitimate, motivating philosophy that adults can also make use of.note It's generally conceded that people need at least some form of idealism (or, more cynically, self-deception which can pass for it) in order to have any goals or motivations at all; even if the goal in question is the pursuit of wealth or even mere survival. A person who completely lacks any goals or ideals would live an extremely short life of total apathy, ending in starvation. This conditioned bias is a major reason why many people believe True Art Is Angsty. It should be noted that a secondary reason is the association in working-class culture between adulthood and the abandonment of lofty goals. The general idea is that you get a job and stop daydreaming, and eventually come to peace with the idea that you most likely won't be rich and famous or single-handedly reshape the world, and is as much a survival mechanism as it is crab-bucket reflex. Sometimes the result of the character crossing the Despair Event Horizon. The Sour Supporter often expresses it, especially in the face of Least Is First. May be accompanied by a warning that Hope Is Scary. Subtrope of Jade-Colored Glasses. See also Silly Rabbit, Romance Is for Kids!. Could also overlap with Obstructive Bureaucrat, and Noble Bigot with a Badge. Expect this phrase to be uttered in Crapsack World settings and Real Life. Especially by the more Machiavellian Realpolitikers when they lecture idealists about the deceptive dog-eat-dog world of international relations. Also hordes of edgy teenagers, but the pro-idealism side of things has plenty of those as well. Contrast Good Is Old-Fashioned, where idealism is regarded as only for the children's grandparents. The intent is much the same: To imply that the good/idealistic person is unfamiliar with the here and now. The character may say that what they are dealing with is Above Good and Evil, and the idealistic character should not drag in such childish morality. It's not all one-way, however; the idealist may fire a few shots back in return. The cynic may be dismissed as a 'sell-out' who gave up on doing the right thing for their own selfish gain under the false pretense of logic and realism. For instance, certain characters just aren't willing to jeopardize their careers, and livelihoods just to change the status quo (this could be Truth in Television depending on how romantic one is and who you happen to be looking at). Or maybe he'll even be called a 'coward' and a weakling who gave up the good fight because he found it too hard and instead resigned themselves to wangsting about bad things. Compare and contrast Knight in Sour Armor, who still holds ideals, just not as idealists; a converted holder of Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is For Kids! views may turn into this, keeping to the appearance of cynicism while reluctantly pursuing idealistic goals. Also contrast Silly Rabbit, Cynicism Is for Losers!, for when excessive cynicism and pessimism turns out to be just as blinding as too much idealism or optimism (or when idealists call out cynics on their attitude, as above). A direct antithesis of Good Is Not Dumb. These characters could also fit under the Stopped Caring trope. |
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In The Elite Squad, Neto is insulted as naive by Fabio when the former is incredulous about the precinct commander's getting paid off by the drug dealers. He quickly learns to turn the cops' bribe-taking against them. Matias doesn't. | |
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Predator: Dutch finds his special forces team has been duped by CIA agent Dillon: | |
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Watchmen: The Comedian's speech at the "Crime Busters" meeting. Ozymandias too, as he tells Nite Owl to grow up and adapt in response to his idealistic views since his new world has no place for silly old-fashioned heroics. |
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Megamind: There is this discussion: | |
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In Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Homura Akemi beautifully sums it up: And then it got defied in the end: The fandom is still debating whether or not this is a cop-out or a valid point. |
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In Angel's Breath, Ryusuke rips into Evan Mae for their Black-and-White Insanity: | |
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GoldenEye: After outing himself as the Big Bad, ex 00-agent Alec Trevelyan chastises James Bond for being "Her Majesty's loyal terrier" who clings to outdated ideals and asks if he has qualms killing his enemies. He even makes a nasty jab about Bond's dead wife Teresa, the only woman Bond ever loved. | |
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In The Witchlands, after Aeduan tells Iseult that she can't possibly be one of the Cahr Awen, she mentally scolds herself for regressing back to her childhood years and believing that she could be anything more than a failed Threadwitch. Of course, Aeduan is lying to make himself feel better about his own choices, so the story doesn't really side with Iseult on this. | |
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Miss Parker from The Pretender, complete with the obligatory "What happened to you?" "I grew up" conversation in the first episode. Jared spends a reasonable amount of time throughout the series trying to revert her, however. | |
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From RENT: "What happened to Benny? What happened to his heart, and the ideals he once pursued?" | |
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Dragonheart: The hero starts off as this, a cold-hearted mercenary who was soured by trying to instruct a king in the old code, the code of honour of the kingdom, who grew up heartless anyway. He later becomes something of a Knight in Sour Armor. | |
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Monster: Johan seems to be trying to teach this to Tenma, and toward the end says "The only thing humans are equal in... is death." | |
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A Certain Magical Index: Almost every character, even the people he saves, are often completely baffled that Touma Kamijou will help anyone who needs it and interfere with problems that have nothing to do with him (even if there's good chance he might get killed), not expecting any reward or fame, but just because he feels it is right and he believes anyone else in his situation would do the same. Several characters think Touma really has some kind of ulterior motive or is insane. | |
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A creepy scene in Angel's "Blind Date". Recurring baddie Lindsey Macdonald, a flunky for the rapacious law firm Wolfram & Hart, starts to have doubts about his job. He gets lectured by Holland, an older attorney, who reminisces about harboring the same ennui that Lindsey is currently feeling. It's a very jovial yet deeply unsettling speech. | |
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Star Trek: Enterprise: When Captain Archer returned to Earth after the events of Season 3, where he carried a team of Space Marines, resorted to piracy, killed unarmed aliens manning a listening post, lost several crew members, and went back in time, he has taken this attitude. The other members of Earth's Starfleet, who are bursting with Roddenberrian enthusiasm for space travel, are deeply concerned as he talks about the importance of better arming ships and warfighting over exploring. They are convinced he's simply cynical, but he can't help but think that being more cynical may have saved some of his crew. It does remind Starfleet that there are civilizations out there who want nothing more than to blow Earth up. | |
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House is a firm believer of this, his personal mantra being "Everybody lies". | |
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Great Teacher Onizuka: Often a particularly jaded character (such as Urumi, Miyabi, Ms. Daimon...) will go in a rant about the rotting of the society, Adults Are Useless or abusive/perverted creeps, kids are delinquents, you can trust nobody or they shall abuse you or take advantage of you. However they sooner or later are confronted with the opposite trope and being told they are just blind cynics and that mindset is one of the roots of those troubles. | |
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In Castle, Detective Kate Beckett has been jaded, cynical, and bitter ever since her mother was murdered when Kate was a teenager and the murder was never solved. Her Character Development — helped along by her increased tolerance of, friendship with, and feelings for immature and optimistic Manchild Richard Castle — has largely been centred around reawakening her optimism and hope for the future; as evidence, simply compare how much she smiles in any given episode of season one as opposed to any given episode of season five. | |
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Peter Petrelli on Heroes has been on the receiving end of this from practically everyone he meets, including his own family. It doesn't stop him from continuing to do whatever he thinks is the right thing. | |
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Justice League: When part of the Justice League is turned into children in the Unlimited episode "Kid Stuff", most of them enjoy it. Green Lantern's having fun conjuring up things, Wonder Woman's having a girly crush on Batman, and Superman's being a bit goofy. Only Batman remains focused and serious, barely changed, and he's the one who eventually wins. When they return to normal, Wonder Woman comments that it was kind of fun being a kid again. Batman responds "I haven't been a kid since I was eight years old". That's an unfortunate bit of Truth in Television. People who lost a parent to death when they were children often describe it, as adults, as "My childhood ended then." This reaction seems to be most pronounced when the child was between about 7 and 12 when the parent dies. An earlier variation shows up when Lobo invites himself to replace Superman (who was presumed dead). The team wants no part of him since he clearly regards superheroics as simply an excuse to bust heads: |
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My Adventures with Superman: Underneath the shiny, colorful exterior of the show, there's a pervasive cynicism among the cast. Lois, Vicki Vale, and Task Force X all believe that it's impossible for Superman to want to help others just because he wants to. Lois and Vicki repeatedly try to dig up dirt on Superman to prove their suspicions right, while Task Force X is convinced that Superman's altruism is just an act and that he's scouting for an Alien Invasion. The show itself seems to be highlighting how difficult it would be for the overarching themes behind Superman's character to be taken seriously in the modern day. | |
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Atop the Fourth Wall frequently spoofs this attitude with the character of 90s Kid (later 90s Dude), a loud, obnoxious teenage slacker who prefers blood, guns, and grittiness to actual plot or characterization, considering hope and joy to be "kid's stuff". Lewis (and Linkara) express disdain over series that take this line of thought such as Marshal Law and The Boys as the creators are known to actively hate superheroes and openly fuel their "deconstructions" as either naive idiots or complete monsters. | |
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In Fullmetal Alchemist both Miles and another Briggs soldier mention this, as when they were Ed's age they thought they could get through life without killing anyone either. | |
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Kyril from The Night Unfurls plays with this trope like a juggler does with their balls. He firmly believes that victory triumphs honour in combat, while calling out anyone who believes otherwise. Not surprising for a shell-shocked, mangsting cynic like him, but all the more shocking when he notably refrains from mocking Princess Classic Prim for her idealism, together with his belief that Humans Are Flawed instead of Humans Are Bastards. Then again, he is the same hunter who lied to Ludwig, the Holy Blade about the fate of his Church Hunters as a final solace. | |
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In the RWBY episode "Heroes and Monsters", Ruby Rose, despite being on the ropes, is still determined to be the hero, save the day, and stop Roman Torchwick and the other bad guys from wrecking Vale. Torchwick laughs that off and tells her if she still wants to be the hero, then she should die like the other Huntsman. He also tells her Remnant has no room for her type of idealism, it should die along with her and he'll keep doing what he does best — "lie, cheat, steal and survive!" A split second later, a Griffin Grimm gives him the ultimate Shut Up, Hannibal! by eating him. Adam Taurus tells Blake Belladonna the same thing in the same episode: when she tells him that she wanted peace and equality for the Faunus races, Adam says "What you want is impossible!" | |
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In Everqueen, both the Emperor and Malcador have trouble understanding Isha wanting to actually help human suffering with no benefit for herself. | |
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Trapped on Draconica: Kazebar gives a Breaking Speech at the end about how idealism is foolish and everything is about power. | |
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On the Dream SMP, in a flashback sequence to the L'Manberg election arc, it is revealed that Wilbur, who had already been turned into a jaded ex-idealist by trauma by that point, was the one who advised Quackity, then an idealistic Naïve Newcomer, that violence was the key to power and security on the server. After an extensive Trauma Conga Line and reaching his Despair Event Horizon two seasons later, Quackity embraces the mentality and proceeds to use this tactic on other characters to convince them to join his new country, Las Nevadas... with copious amounts of I Hate Past Me Psychological Projection implicated in the manipulation. | |
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Harry is far more cynical than the more idealist Anakin in The Havoc Side of the Force. Unlike most examples, however, he teaches Anakin to be more cynical because he honestly doesn't want the kid to learn the hard way like Harry did. | |
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One of the central themes in Trigun and also the source of conflict between Vash and his brother, Knives. It's best exemplified in a scene from when they were children, and observing a butterfly caught in a spider's web - Knives opts to squish the spider, and Vash objects that he wanted to save both, prompting Knives to respond with this trope. | |
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Mad Max. Max wants to leave the Main Force Patrol as he's worried what it will turn him into. Da Chief tries to rally him with a Rousing Speech. | |
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The Scrubs episode "My Brother, Where Art Thou" is about this. After 3 of years of working at the hospital and due to Dr. Cox's influence, JD, who was originally introduced as a Wide-Eyed Idealist, has become a lot more cynical. His brother Dan, who has come to visit, is shocked by this and doesn't like the change. He tells Dr. Cox that he knows JD will never look up to him, but that he does to Dr. Cox, so he should work at being a better mentor. Surprisingly, Dr. Cox accepts his point and resolves to take the role more seriously. | |
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Deconstructed in the Cowboy Bebop episode "Black Dog Serenade". In the episode Jet teams up with Fad, his old partner from his days as a cop, to catch a fugitive assassin who led Jet into the ambush that blew off his arm and made him end his time as a cop. Just before dying, the assassin reveals that Fad was a Dirty Cop on the payroll of the Syndicate, and furthermore was the one who actually shot Jet. When confronted, Fad says that Jet has only himself to blame, because he knew the Syndicates either buy or kill cops who are a threat to them, and Jet refused to be bought. The deconstruction comes in when it becomes clear that despite his cynical words, Fad is a Regretful Traitor who has struggled with guilt ever since, to the point of essentially committing Suicide by Cop, with Jet acting as the "cop" in question. Idealism might be for kids, but unless you have no conscience at all, the other choice is being haunted by guilt and despair. | |
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A Song of Ice, Fire and Heart has Tywin Lannister deriding Roxas' belief in honour and justice through a Breaking Speech in which the Old Lion describes how the last Targaryen king brutally raped his wife and burned his own subjects alive while everyone stood around, even the knights who had sworn to protect the innocents, and a World in which such things can and do happen is a World in which hope is a lie. Roxas fires back that justice and honour are real when you make them real, and Tywin became a cog in the World's cruelty when he decided to be just as bad as the people he finds disgusting. | |
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In one of Marvel Comic's Thunderbolts mini-series, Baron Zemo accidentally goes back in time and encounters many of his ancestors via time-jumps, one of whom is in young love with a lady that history says he's not destined to marry. Zemo tells them to their faces that they can dream because they are young and that the harshness of reality will eventually make them adults. Of course he was right all along. He knew he would marry another after all. | |
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Used in Tiger & Bunny to highlight the duality between Kotetsu and his partner Barnaby. Barnaby, a Punch-Clock Hero who views superheroics as "just another job", finds Kotetsu's still-intact idealism and aspirations towards being The Cape to be childish and naive. The twist is that Kotetsu is at least ten years older than Barnaby, and seems to be holding on to the virtues of "the good old days" in an era where superheroes have become marketing mascots. As the series progresses and he starts to rub off on Barnaby, the focus of the trope shifts from the two of them to Kotetsu and Lunatic, a Vigilante Man whose sense of justice involves burning criminals alive. In his case, it turns out his mindset is based on the knowledge of what the Stern Bild idea of 'justice' actually entails. For much of the series the HeroTV heroes are ignorant of the massive corruption and violence that lies behind the glitzy theatrics, giving another reason (if one were needed) why the others don't see where Lunatic's coming from. Hopefully time will tell what the reactions of them and NEXTs in general will be to Maverick's setup being uncovered. |
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Mazinger Z: In a story arc of the Gosaku Ota manga alternate continuity Baron Ashura manages to kidnap Kouji Kabuto and tries to talk Kouji into joining him. When Kouji refuses, Ashura goes into a What Is Evil? rant, stating "justice" and "peace" are only meaningless, empty words invented by people because they are too cowardly and weak to accept the truth (Might Makes Right according to him) and protect themselves, and then he taunts Kouji, telling the only thing his idealism has got him is trouble and humiliation. | |
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In The Order of the Stick #761, Elan thinks his father is invoking this on him and says he's often heard it but it hasn't stopped him. | |
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The Dark Knight: This film is essentially a battle of ideologies between Batman and The Joker, with the Joker trying to prove to Batman that deep down, everyone is just as evil as he is. | |
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In Ash and Serena's Atomic Odyssey, Serena's main rival in the Tandor Pokémon Contests is a girl named Sayaka who almost as soon as they meet develops an almost compulsive need to crush her. When Serena finally confronts her about this, Sayaka confesses that Serena reminds her a lot of herself when she started, as her original goal was to make people smile with her performances, but was unable to win no matter how hard she tried. Sayaka decided that to be stronger she had to cast away her childhood dreams and become more ruthless, so she needs to defeat Serena to prove to herself that she made the right choice. Of course, Serena's response to this is the opposite trope, and this only makes her more determined to beat her. | |
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Subverted in Elseworld's Finest: Supergirl & Batgirl. Batgirl is a cynical jerkass who thinks the Justice Society are gods looking down on the little people and Supergirl is clueless when she tells that they and Lex Luthor are her surrogate family. When it's revealed that Luthor is a lying, murderous bastard it looks like Batgirl has been proved right, but then she talks Supergirl out of killing him because she's a hero and a symbol of Hope and shouldn't drop to his level. | |
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Revolution (1985): Mr. McConnahay more or less tells Daisy this. | |
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Lux in Undefeated Bahamut Chronicle is repeatedly told this by others. An excellent example is by his older and less-scrupulous half-brother Fugil. Lux and Fugil both took part in a rebellion to depose their tyrannical family, with the former defeating his opponents non-lethally and intending to spare them afterwards. Fugil killed the rest of the royal family (save for himself, Lux, and their younger sister Airi), the nobles, and the army then lectured Lux on how his approach would have gotten him stabbed in the back later on. | |
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Avatar: The Last Airbender: In the main series: Resident Emo Teen Zuko believes that Aang's ideas about peace, pacifism, and forgiveness are childish. While he's proven wrong in the case of Katara's need to avenge her mother, and admits as much, the question of killing Big Bad Ozai is more complicated; Aang's ultimate non-lethal victory is only made possible by a discovery that some viewers consider a Deus ex Machina, before which even Aang's idealistic friends and his previous incarnations argued that killing Ozai would be Necessarily Evil. The sequel comics also show that the world doesn't miraculously fix itself overnight after a hundred years of war and that even with a Reasonable Authority Figure on both sides of an issue, there is still room for trouble and moral complexity. The Legend of Korra: Korra confronts this often. Her attempts to just solve problems because she's the Avatar run into local and national politics frequently, to the point where she's conned out of interfering in the Water Tribe Civil War until it's too late. When she tries to do a quid pro quo trade with the Earth Queen — she collects the Queen's unpaid taxes, the Queen turns over any airbenders in her city — the queen lets Korra do all the work and then lies about there being any people to turn over, leaving Korra with nothing. Suyin's refusal to step up to lead the Earth Kingdom after the Queen is assassinated in Season 3 and it falls into chaos due to her fears about maybe becoming a dictator are brushed aside by Kuvira (and many fans) as her simply not being willing to do what had to be done because of her own wants, similar to Aang above. Unlike Aang, she gets burned badly for it. Likewise, the leaders of the other nations for assuming Kuvira would be honorable enough to work for years reuniting a kingdom (and building a cult of personality) just to hand it over to the prince who'd been living in luxury and exile the entire time. Even Season 3 Big Bad Zaheer gets hit with this. He thought killing the Earth Queen would lead to more freedom for their subjects. Instead, it led to an even more iron-fisted tyrant than the one who came before. An elderly Toph even views such ideals of making the world a better place as naive. However, the moment she sees her family sacrifice themselves and fight Kuvira no matter how suicidal it was, such an act restored her faith in others' heroism. |
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This trope is inverted in Black Lagoon when Takenaka, a Terrorist Without A Cause, attempts to interrogate Rock into giving up some info by convincing him that they're aren't that different. Rock refuses and asks Takenaka why he keeps fighting for a cause he's already lost. Takenaka explains that he's long since lost any ideals about being able to do anything constructive with his actions, but "keeps preaching" because it's the only thing he finds meaning in doing. One can argue that the entire series is about this trope when it comes to Rock's character. He's had to face this trope many times. |
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The First Law series has this in spades. | |
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Tess Mercer from Smallville gives Oliver Queen the whole "I grew up" line. Although this can be described as Silly Rabbit, Romance Is for Kids!. A bit of both; she also uses it as an explanation of how she went from an environmentally crusading marine biologist to the head of Luthorcorp. | |
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Theo Bell has this exchange with his old friend Angus in a Vampire: The Masquerade spinoff novel, not long after finding out Angus was the one who'd been repeatedly trying to kill him. | |
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Wonder Woman (2017): The entire film shows how Diana develops this mindset, starting out as a Wide-Eyed Idealist and setting out on the straightforward task of stopping World War One. Ares tells her that mankind is evil and beyond redemption. Diana can't deny this but instead of agreeing, moves into The Idealist. | |
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In the main series: Resident Emo Teen Zuko believes that Aang's ideas about peace, pacifism, and forgiveness are childish. While he's proven wrong in the case of Katara's need to avenge her mother, and admits as much, the question of killing Big Bad Ozai is more complicated; Aang's ultimate non-lethal victory is only made possible by a discovery that some viewers consider a Deus ex Machina, before which even Aang's idealistic friends and his previous incarnations argued that killing Ozai would be Necessarily Evil. The sequel comics also show that the world doesn't miraculously fix itself overnight after a hundred years of war and that even with a Reasonable Authority Figure on both sides of an issue, there is still room for trouble and moral complexity. |
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Aftermath of a Fallen Star: A centuries-long conspiracy boils down to the belief that Princess Celestia is too idealistic, and that an Equestria that's governed by principals of harmony, friendship and tolerance is one that will inevitably fail. As far as Amadeus and their allies are concerned, Celestia should be crushing the other races beneath Equestria's heel; all her efforts to make peace are supposedly weakening their country instead. | |
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In Zootopia, Nick Wilde tells Judy (who is a literal rabbit) that he considers her worldview naïve and childish, and her dreams are going to be crushed by reality. | |
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In Superman: At Earth's End, Ben Boxer claims that Superman's ideals, such as not killing for any reason, have no place whatsoever in a devastated hellhole ruled by twin clones of Adolf Hitler. | |
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Spies in Disguise: This trope is one of the reasons, if not THE reason, Walter's considered a weirdo by nearly everyone in the agency, especially with their line of work. Lance straight up tells him that "evil doesn't care that you're nice" and he "can't save the world with hugs". | |
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Cracked Glass: The Grandfather believes that it's utterly pointless for humans to try and resist the Nomu, preferring to cooperate with them instead in order to secure his own safety. He's shocked at the lengths that the Hero Society will go through in order to save just one person. | |
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Kaeloo: Happens all too often with Mr. Cat and Kaeloo. Kaeloo's optimism is usually crushed when she gets a dose of the real world, with Mr. Cat telling her "I Told You So". One of the most prominent examples is the episode "TV News", where the characters start their own news channel. Mr. Cat says that the news needs "blood, pathos, and suffering" because that's what the viewers enjoy, but Kaeloo tells him that people aren't as bad as he thinks. The show's ratings go up when Stumpy and Quack-Quack beat themselves up on screen, proving that the viewers are indeed as horrible as Mr. Cat made them out to be, and the episode ends with Mr. Cat gently telling a crushed and heartbroken Kaeloo that people are the way they are and there's nothing he or Kaeloo can do to change that. | |
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Sir Humphrey has managed to reduce this to a simple aphorism in Yes, Minister: | |
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Shooter: This Mark Wahlberg film turns into this trope towards the end of the film as the protagonist tries to bring down a corrupt senator, a colonel, and a group of Private Military Contractors. The film even includes the "This is the "real world" type of speech from the Attorney General towards Bob Lee Swagger. Of course, his Exact Words are: So Swagger goes straight to the senator's cabin and shoots all of them. |
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New Jack City: The charismatic drug lord Nino Brown gave such a speech to the old military veteran after the veteran tries to reason with Nino that he's destroying his own community and hurting his own people selling drugs. Nino's response: Nino Brown continued to joke about the war veteran later that night. But the old man would get the last laugh. |
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This is Kyosuke Munakata's feelings towards Makoto Naegi in Danganronpa 3. He feels that Makoto's methods of dealing with despair (rehabilitation) are too soft and that the only way to defeat despair is to eradicate it completely (i.e., murder anyone who might be remotely connected to despair). | |
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Echoes (Kagaseo) takes this to a world-spanning extreme: one's level of cynicism directly correlates to one's competence, while idealists? Idealists tend to make matters worse via Nice Job Breaking It, Hero. | |
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In Angels with Dirty Faces, the gangster Rocky dismisses Father Connolly's high-minded ideals as silly and asserts that the easiest way to get through life is to have a racket or a gun. Because of his cynicism, Rocky doesn't take Connolly's threats to go to the press about his crime seriously, which turns out to be his undoing. | |
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Law & Order loves to rub the viewers' faces into the political version of this trope. Then there's Abbie Carmichael who is this trope personified. African American attorney, Paul Robinette, began as an idealistic prosecutor and second chair under lead Ben Stone. In later seasons after Ben Stone left the show, Robinette would return as a defense attorney. When Jack McCoy, who took over as lead prosecutor asked why he switched, Robinette claimed he couldn't avoid the realities of him being a Black man in America anymore and decided to defend people he believed were wrongfully prosecuted by a bias, unjust legal system. |
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In World War Z, this is the viewpoint of many Jerk Asses in such interviews as the one with former White House chief of staff Grover Carlson. Asked about the response of the White House to reports of the walking dead, Carlson claims it was above and beyond, and brags that Phalanx, a supposed anti-zombie drug, was pushed through the Food and Drug Administration. When the Narrator points out that Phalanx didn't work, Carlson explodes and launches into a tirade that what mattered was that a panic had been avoided, ultimately telling the interviewer to "grow up": Given that this guy was personally responsible for a number of the dumbass decisions that led the world to ruin, he should feel lucky that his punishment is simply collecting manure for a biodiesel plant. Of course, his viewpoint is that his decisions kept society going long enough for the Redekker Plan to be enacted, therefore making him one of the world's unsung saviors. The reader is left hanging as to this. |
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Animorphs. Jake's brother Tom (who is actually controlled by an alien Yeerk slug) sums the trope up when talking about morality in war: It's telling that by this point in this story, Jake's inner monologue is along the same lines. This is also what he tells himself when he sends his cousin Rachael on a suicide mission to kill Tom. Within the Animorphs themselves, Marco tells Cassie this a lot. In the Bad Future where Yeerks have conquered Andalites and humans, Cassie has become a Knight Templar terrorist happily dynamiting skyscrapers full of people. She tells Jake that now she finally understands war. |
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Kamikakushi: Butsuma believes that his son Hashirama's dreams of creating a more peaceful world are hopelessly idealistic. | |
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Beast Machines had Silverbolt from the previous series return halfway through. Much to Blackaraknia's dismay, however, he had turned rather sour after being reprogrammed temporarily by Megatron and at first outright sneered at anyone who brought up his past point of view | |
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Grandad from The Boondocks shows heavy shades of this. Likewise Huey suffers a heavy case of cynicism towards society while Riley is too ignorant to care. In the comic strip, he had Cesar, who was similar to Huey but lacked his extremely jaded ideas. And MacGruder to make the comic even more cynical has Cesar moving away to deliver the final coup de grace. |
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A Song of Ice and Fire seems to run on this trope. It's particularly the focus of Sansa's character development, as she turns from an idealistic, romantic girl into a reserved, suspicious, cynical and untrusting woman. Inverted from the perspectives of Jaime and Tyrion. Both are cynical pragmatists that only find meaning in their lives when they reconnect with honorable agendas. |
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In One Piece, when the Sun Pirates helps a young human girl (whom they had grown to cherish) return to her village, Arlong is quick to ruin their mood by stating that Koala will grow up to hate fishmen like any other human. While he was wrong about Koala to the point that she becomes a Revolutionary and substitute teacher of the Fishman style of martial arts, he was right about the people of Koala's hometown, who repaid Fisher Tiger's kindness in returning the ex-slave child by reporting him to the Marines, who mortally wounded him, purely out of Fantastic Racism. It's a trait of many villains in the series that they'll spout a line like this. Donquixote Doflamingo especially does it a lot, though it's subverted by the Big Bad Blackbeard, who actually believes in dreams and idealism in his own, twisted way (which makes sense considering he has the Will of D.). |
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Jean Anouilh's version of Antigone is a rare example of this being taken seriously as opposed to being scoffed at or framed as rationalization. The play is concerned with Antigone's willingness to die as a punishment for trying to ensure that one of her brothers gets a proper burial, which itself is a manifestation of her ideological opposition to Creon, the pragmatic ruler that's replaced her father. Her willingness to die for her principles is framed more as a symptom of youth. She can't appreciate how destructive and foolish dying for her cause might be and so winds up ruining the lives of everyone she loves and not accomplishing anything other than ideological purity. Anouilh regards her youthful lack of perspective as her hamartia. | |
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Used in Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei the first time Itoshiki Nozomu teaches the class. To expand on it, Nozomu tells his class to write down their "Despairs for the future", essentially the students writing down their "Hopes for the future", what they are aiming at becoming, which Nozomu shoots down by saying "It's hopeless", and then giving them a Breaking Lecture on their unrealistic goals... And then Fuura Kafuka shoots HIM down simply by stating that no matter how unrealistic your goal is, as long as you do your best to achieve it "the possibility exists" that you'll succeed. note Trivial note: It's later revealed that Kafuka's "Hopes/Despairs for the future" was to become "God, A Time Traveler, A Pororocoian". And that she was already dead when the story took place. |
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Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: In a Deleted Scene from the fourth film, Moody (actually Crouch Jr.) tells Harry after the Second Task that "if you want to play the hero, I can find you plenty of playmates among the first years." | |
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This would be a big part of Sally Floyd's mentality in a nutshell during Civil War (2006). When she berates Captain America, she claims that modern America is not about idealistic beliefs but about mediocrity and pop culture and that Captain America with his idealism broke America (sic...although it's not saying a lot when Iron Man had done horrible things that would prove Cap's point). | |
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Princess: The Hopeful: This is the attitude of the Radiant Courts towards the Court of Mirrors. While the Radiants are idealists, they do acknowledge that they live in a World Half Full and that they will need to Earn Your Happy Ending. Mirrors, on the other hand, teaches that there is no such thing as a no-win scenario, that hard choices only mean that you're not looking hard enough for the perfect answer, and that the Princess can fix everything by herself. | |
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In Game of Thrones, this is basically the plot arc of Sansa Stark in the first two seasons. | |
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In the Six Feet Under episode "The Liar And The Whore," Karla subtly suggests this with the following line: "People don't change. They just get older, that's all." | |
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In Robot Chicken, The Lorax is taught by "that marketing whore" the Moolah that profit is more important than trying to impart an educational message. The Cat in the Hat, Horton and the Sneetches all express similar sentiments. | |
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The Brave One: Jackie, the ex-wife of Detective Mercer from this film. Detective Mercer asks Jackie for help and she replies, "I can't help. Besides, I don't do 'pro bono." When Mercer asks why, she responds, "I grew up." | |
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The Thin Red Line: In this Terrence Malick film, Pvt. Witt is constantly taunted by his superiors for being an idealistic dreamer. | |
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Patricio Rey y sus Redonditos de Ricota has "¡Estás frito, angelito!", from Último Bondi a Finisterre, about the subject singing to a third party about how life is hard and how everything is out there for him if he doesn't abandon his excessive idealism. | |
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Se7en: This is Somerset's attitude towards Mills. Somerset's years as a cop have left him disillusioned, jaded, and borderline misanthropic. He scoffs at the younger man's more optimistic outlook on life, at one point even chastising him by saying "You can't be this naive!" When Mills finally succumbs to the darkness by killing John Doe, however, Somerset is clearly saddened to be proven right. | |
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Hazbin Hotel: Or just "decent people", at least. Alastor makes it clear that he thinks Hell's citizens are beyond redeeming; he's just along for the ride. | |
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In El Goonish Shive, Diane initially has this philosophy toward romance. | |
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Obito-Sensei: Obito takes this stance, having been hardened by his experiences during the Third Shinobi War. Including losing Kakashi on their first mission after his rival was promoted to jounin. He starts to break out of it when Naruto and Sasuke tell him they plan to join Sakura as Fake Defectors, realizing they were what he was in the past during the Kanabi Bridge mission and how much he had changed since then. | |
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In the How to Train Your Dragon fanfic A Thing of Vikings, Regent Einar Thambarskelfir corners Hiccup at one point and, in true evil mentor fashion, tells him that, no matter what people might otherwise claim, their motivations ultimately amount to nothing more than money, power, sex and revenge, and the sooner he realizes this, the better a lord he'll become. Later, he takes Tuffnut aside and is genuinely appalled at Tuffnut's apparent lack of ambition and gives him a Dare to Be Badass lecture. | |
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Doctor Who: Amy Pond met the Doctor when she was a kid and wanted to travel with him but circumstances delayed him until she'd grown up, where she justifies her (not entirely unjustified) skepticism of him and his claims with this trope. Being the Doctor, however, he has the perfect comeback: | |
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Man of La Mancha: This is the attitude of the Duke, and of Dr. Carrasco; the character he plays in the Show Within a Show. | |
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Ned in Pushing Daisies gives "I grew up" as the answer to why he no longer likes Halloween. He's lying, though. | |
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The Avengers (2012): Loki lectures Black Widow on this: | |
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In Austen's Pride, The Musical of Pride and Prejudice, the Act I finale "Why" has Jane Austen discuss the futility of romance and the unrealism of happy endings, as learned from her own heartbreak experience. | |
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Superman: Superman once battled the Elite (a pastiche of The Authority), a pack of super-anti-heroes who routinely killed. It was the Elite's point-of-view that Superman's boy-scout kid-gloves morality was a weakness and that defeating evil required being just as bad. During their final face-off, Superman appeared to be going all-out, slaughtering his way through the Elite on live TV. But it was a fake-out — he was merely knocking them out in creative ways, trying to illustrate how terrifying superpowered killers can be. Manchester Black, the leader of the Elite, maintained that Superman's idealism was nothing but a facade until his dying day. (When Black realized that Superman honestly and sincerely believed and lived up to his ideals, it was more than Black could take and he committed suicide.) In fact, the very idea of idealism apparently screwed Black up so much that he eventually came back and tried to destroy the entire world to ultimately prove his point, in a large-scale prequel to the Joker's attempted demonstrations in The Dark Knight. Except with more Humans Are Bastards (and so are you) thrown in. In The DCU, enough cynicism apparently leads to evil on an epic scale. In another example, Clark Kent once came across a police officer he was acquainted with both as Kent and Superman attempting to beat a confession out of Pete Ross, who was suspected of being a supervillain at the time. When Kent confronted her about it, the police officer dismissively told him to 'grow up'. Unfortunately for her, then Superman confronted her — and snatched her badge from her with his superspeed, crushed it in his fist, and bluntly told her that she was a disgrace who didn't deserve to wear it. Not entirely surprisingly, having the Man of Steel deliver a What the Hell, Hero? speech to her was enough to prompt something of a moral crisis for her. Overall lesson from all this — telling Superman that cynicism and maturity are the same thing is a very bad idea. In Superman: At Earth's End, Ben Boxer claims that Superman's ideals, such as not killing for any reason, have no place whatsoever in a devastated hellhole ruled by twin clones of Adolf Hitler. |
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Rachel of Dumbing of Age, previously a minor character, rips into the damaged Ruth with a brutally cynical attack on the whole idea of character redemption. | |
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In Sailor Moon S, this is the big problem between the Inner and Outer Guardians due to Adaptational Jerkass hitting the Outers. Here, they treat the Inners as being too childish and idealistic to do what needs to be done, especially when they learn Hotaru is the "Messiah of Silence". These are also the same girls who saved Earth and the space/time continuum twice. While Usagi's actions do save the world and Hotaru, Haruka and Michiru are so pissed off at the close call that it was that they challenge her to a duel with her title as Moon Princess and Sailor Moon on the line. So, in this case, it was "Silly Usagi, Idealism is for Kids!". | |
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In the Detective Comics (Rebirth) storyline "The Victim Syndicate", Stephanie Brown performs a (downplayed) Face–Heel Turn and attempts to blackmail Batman into getting every vigilante to retire, get help and live normal lives to prevent a group like them from existing and to stop another Tim Drake from dying. Batwing and Clayface call her out by pointing out that doing something like that isn't as simple as just hanging up their costumes and being normal as they have problems beyond just wearing the costume and punching people. | |
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A Rabbit Among Wolves: Lisa Lavender gives Jaune a rather gentle iteration of this sort of speech, telling him that all his acts of charity and compassion won't amount to much in the long run, as the Fantastic Racism is too deeply ingrained for him to change that way. | |
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The Legend of Korra: Korra confronts this often. Her attempts to just solve problems because she's the Avatar run into local and national politics frequently, to the point where she's conned out of interfering in the Water Tribe Civil War until it's too late. When she tries to do a quid pro quo trade with the Earth Queen — she collects the Queen's unpaid taxes, the Queen turns over any airbenders in her city — the queen lets Korra do all the work and then lies about there being any people to turn over, leaving Korra with nothing. Suyin's refusal to step up to lead the Earth Kingdom after the Queen is assassinated in Season 3 and it falls into chaos due to her fears about maybe becoming a dictator are brushed aside by Kuvira (and many fans) as her simply not being willing to do what had to be done because of her own wants, similar to Aang above. Unlike Aang, she gets burned badly for it. Likewise, the leaders of the other nations for assuming Kuvira would be honorable enough to work for years reuniting a kingdom (and building a cult of personality) just to hand it over to the prince who'd been living in luxury and exile the entire time. Even Season 3 Big Bad Zaheer gets hit with this. He thought killing the Earth Queen would lead to more freedom for their subjects. Instead, it led to an even more iron-fisted tyrant than the one who came before. An elderly Toph even views such ideals of making the world a better place as naive. However, the moment she sees her family sacrifice themselves and fight Kuvira no matter how suicidal it was, such an act restored her faith in others' heroism. |
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In the Madam Secretary episode "The Detour", Chinese Foreign Minister Chen Ming shrugs off Secretary of State Liz McCord's speech about the good the US could do in Africa if China would quit undercutting them. | |
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Superman once battled the Elite (a pastiche of The Authority), a pack of super-anti-heroes who routinely killed. It was the Elite's point-of-view that Superman's boy-scout kid-gloves morality was a weakness and that defeating evil required being just as bad. During their final face-off, Superman appeared to be going all-out, slaughtering his way through the Elite on live TV. But it was a fake-out — he was merely knocking them out in creative ways, trying to illustrate how terrifying superpowered killers can be. Manchester Black, the leader of the Elite, maintained that Superman's idealism was nothing but a facade until his dying day. (When Black realized that Superman honestly and sincerely believed and lived up to his ideals, it was more than Black could take and he committed suicide.) | |
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Lampshaded in Blue Harvest: | |
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When Sasha Monroe from Third Watch points out Tyrone Davis Jr's shady police tactics and how it contributes to innocent black men going to jail, he put his hand up to her face and says "Don't preach to me." Interestingly enough, Ty refused to believe his father was corrupt, yet he's going down the same slippery slope. | |
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Fate/type Redline: A member of the Church asks Tsukumo Fujimiya what she would wish for if she won the Holy Grail War. When she said she would wish for a bright future, the man burst into laughter and called her naive. | |
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The Decembrist uprising of 1825 is described in such terms for all of Russian high society in The Death of the Vazir Mukhtar; while "the people of the [eighteen] twenties" are generally idealistic if superfluous, impractical and hypocritical, the people who replace them at the forefront of high society after the failure of the Decembrist uprising are more pragmatic, materialistic and outwardly conformist (notably, both sides can be pretty cynical or the opposite regardless of this divide, just in different ways). And then there is the main character, Aleksandr Griboyedov, who is stuck awkwardly between the two groups and is very cynical and contemptuous towards both. | |
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A Few Good Men: Colonel Jessep calls out Lt. Caffe's naivete while trying to justify his own harsh (and illegal) methods of discipline: | |
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Subverted in the first episode of the Rurouni Kenshin anime. When Karou tries to insist that her family's kenjutsu school is a method for self-improvement, the villain laughs and tries to break Kaoru by saying that swordsmanship is meant for killing. Kenshin agrees... but also says that he prefers Karou's idealism over the truth, and hopes that Karou's idealistic view will become the truth in future generations. | |
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In Angel of Death good liches are widely considered to be sources of annoyance by others, to the point that Kaburlduth feels the need to protest Bavandersloth's accusation that he is a "do-gooder." | |
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In Merlin, when the title character refuses to save Mordred's life because he's destined to kill Arthur, Gaius asks what happened to the young boy who first arrived in his chambers. Merlin replies, "He grew up. And learnt the meaning of duty." | |
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Cyrano de Bergerac: In Act II Scene VII, De Guiche offers us a more sophisticated example than most, when he counsels Cyrano to study Don Quixote’s chapter of the windmills... implying that Cyrano too will be betrayed by his own idealism. | |
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Anecdote of Error: Zeya tells Luntsha that believing there is good in the enemy is naïve, while Luntsha is saving her from execution. | |
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In My Little Pony: The Movie (2017), this is the point of Tempest Shadow's Villain Song Open Up Your Eyes. | |
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In I Spoke as a Child, the normally pleasant Frankie curses out Mac (a nine-year-old) and tells him that he's living in an idealistic bubble and needs to "grow the fuck up". However, she apologizes for this a few hours later. Frankie only snapped at him because she's dealing with the aftermath of Date Rape and has been traumatized by the ordeal. | |
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Training Day: The entire movie is about Dirty Cop Alonzo Harris trying to break Jake Hoyt into his world of corruption and violence. | |
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Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids! / int_fdb030a8 |
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