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2 + Torture = 5

176 statements
32 feature instances
30 referencing feature instances

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2 + Torture = 5	label	2 + Torture = 5
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2 + Torture = 5	comment	A Mind Rape technique popularised by Nineteen Eighty-Four: The villain has the hero in his clutches, but the hero simply... won't... crack. Sometimes the villain has to do more, i.e., to make the hero's mind break. This means using Cold-Blooded Torture (both physical and psychological) to make the hero see things that aren't there or being forced to acknowledge things that are patently untrue, self-contradictory, and/or irrational. The villain needs to make the hero believe that 2 + 2 = 5. It is said that the Truth will set you Free, and when truth loses all meaning, it becomes just another method of Orwellian Mind Control. Perception is Truth. Black is White. Wrong is Right. Right is Left. Up is Down. Everything you know is wrong. Often occurs in a society where Big Brother Is Watching; bonus points if the operation is carried out in a Room 101. Also a good way of procuring a Manchurian Agent or otherwise Brainwashed drone: if you can break someone down so much that they end up believing this, then you can put them back together however you want. Fortunately, this is a case of Artistic License â€“ Medicine and its use in 1984 itself is a case of Science Marches On, as it turns out that you quite simply cannot torture someone into believing something, and if anything they're going wind up far less receptive to whatever beliefs you were trying to instill on them since they'll associate it with torturers (turns out, the tortured can just claim to believe whatever the torturers want them to, just to make the pain stop). See also Appeal to Force. Can also be accomplished with Gaslighting or The Ludovico Technique. Note: This trope has nothing to do with actual math or equations.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_10254bd5	type	2 + Torture = 5
2 + Torture = 5 / int_10254bd5	comment	In the first episode of The Thick of It, Malcolm tries to "persuade" journalists that minister Hugh Abbott did make an important announcement at an earlier press conference (though he did no such thing) - it's just that journalists missed it.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_10bc0a19	comment	Night Watch Discworld: The utterly mad Captain Findthee Swing uses craniometrics to determine whether someone was a criminal or not. And funnily enough, "after a short stay in the care of his much more direct underlings, he would inevitably be proven right".
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_1d46caa0	comment	Land of the Blind: The new regime apparently mandates vegetarianism, and forces dissidents in the re-education camps to recite: "A dry crust of bread is better than nothing, but nothing is better than a big juicy steak. Therefore, a dry crust of bread is better than a big juicy steak." Plus of course "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_22119589	comment	Alias: Some of the bad guys attempt this with Sydney but as she can't be brainwashed she merely pretends to be broken.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_23553960	comment	Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain: Interestingly, if you shoot Ocelot with a tranquilizer round, he claims he has drug resssistannce trrraiiinnninnng. Repeated shots eventually make him insist "Two plus two equals five. TWO plus two equals FIVE..." without any outside assistance. As it turns out, he's intentionally torturing himself with reinforced contradictory beliefs because Venom Snake is on the verge of accidentally breaking his hypnosis, and like his later plan in Metal Gear Solid 4, he kind of needs to semi-forget that Venom Snake isn't Big Boss to pull this insurrection off.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_28a11000	comment	In the Burning Shores expansion of Horizon Forbidden West, Londra uses his Mutiny Suppression Protocol, or MSP, to forcibly submit stranded Quen into his fold using either prerecordings of him or an AI that resembles him. In the past, he used this on his workers to make any attempts at rebellion literally unthinkable.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_2f1933a4	comment	The Outpost: After Garret is nearly killed by Dred, he's taken to the Prime Order capital, where the healer Sana nurses him back to health and strikes up a romance with him. Then the Tormentor comes and takes him to the dungeons to be beaten until he renounces Gwyn/Rosmund as a false queen before Sana stops him and heals him back to health again. Turns out this is a ploy by both Sana and The Tormentor, who are husband and wife, and are using a combination of brutal torture, gentle healing, and carefully crafted lies to break Garret's spirit to get him to serve the Prime Order.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_4a575473	type	2 + Torture = 5
2 + Torture = 5 / int_4a575473	comment	In the children's book Jim Button and Luke the Engine Driver (Jim Knopf und Lukas der LokomotivfÃ¼hrer) by Michael Ende, the dragon Mrs. Grindtooth (Frau Mahlzahn) tries to use this technique on her pupil/slave Li Si. Li Si, being both very intelligent and very brave, refuses to fold.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_5cd1aa89	comment	George Orwell used this for Nineteen Eighty-Four. Winston Smith writes that freedom is the ability to say "two plus two is four," then later tries to make himself believe in Doublethink by changing it to five. During his torture, the torturer forces him to see five fingers when there are only four. After Winston is released, he at one point subconsciously writes "2 + 2 = 5" on a coffee table's dust layer. Interestingly, several editions of the book list "2 + 2 = " instead. Alas, it's actually a typo: Winston really did write "2 + 2 = 5".
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_5d354f8	comment	Though it involves no torture, in the Red Dwarf episode "Camille", Lister tries to break Kryten's Cannot Tell a Lie programming by showing him an apple and getting him to say it's an orange. He doesn't want to make him believe it — just to get him to say something he knows to be untrue.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_60f02ddb	comment	American Dad!: In "Bullocks To Stan", Deputy Director Bullock starts sleeping with Hayley and Stan tries to make Hayley's ex-boyfriend Jeff more assertive to put a stop to it. Stan states a blatant falsehood, namely that the orange he's holding is a banana, which Jeff agrees to because he's that much of a wimp. Stan then electrifies Jeff until he stops agreeing with Stan and sticks up for himself.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_691be369	comment	In The X-Files, this is pretty much the objective of the military guards torturing Mulder in "The Truth". After breaking into a government facility and finding "the truth", as well as several other things the government was hiding, Mulder is captured and denied food, water, clothes, and sleep. Whenever the guards come in, they ask him what he's thinking, and beat him for answering truthfully. What is the correct answer? They want Mulder to admit that he illegally entered the facility to obtain non-existent information and killed a man, even though none of those things are true. Why? They're holding a Kangaroo Court and are hoping to get rid of him once and for all. It appears to work, as Mulder repeats the words back. Turns out he's just saying it to get them to leave him alone.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_75149ccd	type	2 + Torture = 5
2 + Torture = 5 / int_75149ccd	comment	Part of what happened to Tycho Celchu at the beginning/in the backstory of the X-Wing Series. He was bent pretty terribly by Isard but didn't actually break. When she overlaid Rebel and Imperial insignia and tried to transfer his loyalty to one over to the other, the contradiction sent him into a catatonic state. She later tried it on Corran Horn with even less success. However, Isard used it successfully to brainwash many other people into becoming Manchurian agents before. They were just resistant from the start, thus they wouldn't turn.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_76cb191b	type	2 + Torture = 5
2 + Torture = 5 / int_76cb191b	comment	Lampshaded/spoofed in The Invisibles when Sir Miles is using the drug Key 17 to mess with King Mob's mind. He causes King Mob to see, among other things, five fingers where there are four. The illustration is subtly creepy. At the end, when King Mob escapes, he returns the favor: "How many fingers am I holding up, Sir Miles? Just two."
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_8a95e28c	comment	Lampshaded by Nice Guy Eddie, in Reservoir Dogs:
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_8ee278fb	comment	ChalkZone: In "Portable Portal", Mrs. Tweezer sets out to make sure that Rudy understands what is "real" and what isn't. She straps him to a chair that shows him two pictures, generally a photo and a cartoon image, and asks him which is better. Every time Rudy picks the cartoon, it honks loudly at him. After some time, Rudy is left feebly trying to answer and getting honk after honk after honk until he says "whatever you say", which is the answer the counselor was looking for. She even uses the word "ungood" instead of "bad," straight from 1984's Newspeak dictionary.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_9d47a2a2	comment	A Song of Ice and Fire: In the fifth book, Ramsay Bolton tortures Theon Greyjoy and conditions him to accept a completely different identity. This also pops up in the backstory novel Fire & Blood. The conspiracy against King Aegon III (and more specifically, against his Lyseni in-laws who have gained massive influence in the court) sets up his regent Lord Thaddeus Rowan as a scapegoat, torturing him to the point where he'll give a seemingly honest confession to being accused of trying to assassinate the king on behalf of the aforementioned in-laws. This ends up backfiring on the conspirators, as Aegon's brother Viserys quickly realizes that Rowan will just as earnestly confess to anything, from contradictory accusations about aspects of the conspiracy all the way up to being responsible for the Doom of Valyria. This exposes the false nature of his "confession" and brings down the conspiracy.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_9e2f90f4	comment	One Piece: Kaido uses torture to break down strong opponents who he sees potential in to make them join his crew. Either that, or they eventually die in his prison camps if they continue to refuse. It ends up backfiring on him when Luffy and Kid use the opportunity to train, making themselves even stronger.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_9fc6d946	comment	This also pops up in the backstory novel Fire & Blood. The conspiracy against King Aegon III (and more specifically, against his Lyseni in-laws who have gained massive influence in the court) sets up his regent Lord Thaddeus Rowan as a scapegoat, torturing him to the point where he'll give a seemingly honest confession to being accused of trying to assassinate the king on behalf of the aforementioned in-laws. This ends up backfiring on the conspirators, as Aegon's brother Viserys quickly realizes that Rowan will just as earnestly confess to anything, from contradictory accusations about aspects of the conspiracy all the way up to being responsible for the Doom of Valyria. This exposes the false nature of his "confession" and brings down the conspiracy.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_b30ae4db	comment	In Game of Thrones, after Ramsay Bolton hears Theon Greyjoy begging him to kill him after being tortured for a long time, Ramsay comes up with the idea that Theon is not Theon anymore, but "Reek." Ramsay slaps him until he admits his name is now "Reek."
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_b4996199	comment	The Green Goblin attempted this in an issue of Spider-Man. Having captured Spidey and held him hostage for several days, to the point where he was dying of thirst, Goblin presented two glasses of water. One was underneath a beam of light while the other was kept in shadow. Every time Spidey reached for the lit-up glass, he was electrocuted, but was told the glass in the darkness would be perfectly safe. In other words, Gobby was trying to goad him into literally choosing the dark side.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_b5a087d7	comment	Robot Chicken: The nerd is subjected to the Enhanced Interrogation Techniques version when he's being questioned as to the location of Mordor. He breaks after a few moments, outright asking them what they want him to say, which is "Pakistan."
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_c00034c2	comment	Beetle Bailey: Private Plato creates an instant demonstration by giving Lt. Sonny Fuzz a black piece of paper and expressing confusion over the alleged fact that the general said it was white.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_cd713f4	comment	In one of The Stainless Steel Rat books, "the grey men" mess with Jim's mind using hypnosis to make him think they've chopped off his hands and reattached them.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_d461f757	comment	They did this to Baltar in Battlestar Galactica (2003) to the point that his mind was so mixed up and he was talking so much gibberish that when he confessed to having done some terrible crimes, no one believed him.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_d6eb7846	comment	The Replacements: In "The Insecurity Guard", Todd replaces the school's hall monitor with a robot that he uses as his personal bodyguard. During an oral test in History class, Todd is questioned about the first president of the United States, and responds "George Stapler" as he looked around for clues. Just when the teacher was about to fail him, Todd sends the robot to intimidate her into accepting his answer. His abuse of power reaches the point the school itself was renamed from "George Washington" to "George Stapler", a name it retains for the rest of the series.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_d7500524	comment	The Feeble Files: After Feeble is arrested and sent to a prison for political dissidents, the prison's torturers manage to briefly convince him that the correct answer to any question they ask him is always "whatever the OmniBrain says it is."
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_d9c602eb	comment	South Park: In "Fishsticks", Kanye West, denying that liking fish sticks makes him a gay fish, tracks down Carlos Mencia, believed at the time to be the originator of the "fish sticks" joke, and tortures him. When Mencia is unable to crack and break from the "reality" of the joke, Kanye decapitates him with a baseball bat.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_dc25de3f	comment	Portal: Midway through the struggle with Big Bad GlaDOS, she angrily seethes, "You think you're doing some damage? Two plus two is... f-f-f-f- Ten. ...In base FOUR! I'm FINE!"
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_f4e799ee	comment	Michael Westen in Burn Notice invokes this trope to state why he never uses torture, or at least physical torture. The show is very against torture and while it does grudgingly admit on a few occasions that mental/psychological torture and breaking a person can work, that tends to be a prolonged process which the group rarely has time for. Michael and company write off physical torture as unreliable because it generally just gets you the fastest answer to make the pain stop, and furthermore, the main characters are often dealing with people who have military or intelligence training that might allow them to resist torture or to feed the torturer bad information mixed in with anything that might be true. As such Michael and his friends rely on various methods such as trickery, disinformation, misinformation, deception, blackmail, and a whole repertoire of gambits when they need to get information out of somebody.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_f74b5f80	comment	Babylon 5: In the episode "Intersections in Real Time", John Sheridan's torture and interrogation is based around manipulating perspective and breaking down Sheridan psychologically until he comes to truly believe that he is a mutineer, a conspirator, a terrorist who has been turned against his own government as a result of alien influence. They need him to sincerely believe his confession in order to pass telepathic scans. However, Sheridan manages to rather effectively turn the logic around against his interrogator by saying that, essentially, if the truth is just as fluid as they say, then the things they proclaim to be the truth and are actually pushing are just as fluid and can be changed or defied just as easily.
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2 + Torture = 5 / int_ff9ab17f	comment	In the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Chain of Command, Part II," Picard is captured during a black op and taken to Gul Madred, who thinks that Picard knows Federation defense plans. Madred tries to force Picard to tell him that there are five lights on the wall when there are really only four. Every time Picard insists that there are four, Madred zaps him with an Agony Beam. When Picard is finally released, due to a deal being struck between the Federation and the Cardassians, he defiantly proclaims "THERE! ARE! FOUR! LIGHTS!" to Madred as he is leaving, but it's not as triumphant as it seems — later, Picard admits to Troi that not only would he have readily said there were five lights just to make the pain stop if he hadn't been released at that exact moment, he was so much at his wits' end that he for a moment actually saw five lights.
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The following is a list of statements referring to the current page from other pages.

2 + Torture = 5	processingCategory2	A Tortured Index
2 + Torture = 5	processingCategory2	Help! Help! This Index Is Being Repressed!
2 + Torture = 5	processingCategory2	Logic Tropes
2 + Torture = 5	processingCategory2	Narrative Devices
2 + Torture = 5	processingCategory2	Truth and Lies
Pages of Harmony / Fan Fic / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Persona 5: Rebellion (Fanfic) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Blind Chance / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Memories of Murder / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Reservoir Dogs / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Bloodlines / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Fire & Blood / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Going Clear / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Jim Button / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Nineteen Eighty-Four / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
The Plague / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
X-Wing Series / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Red vs. Blue: The Project Freelancer Saga (Machinima) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Mario4812LikedTropes3	seeAlso	2 + Torture = 5
Hail to the Thief (Music) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
AJCO (Roleplay) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Roots (1977) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Roots (2016) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Space: Above and Beyond / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
The Outpost / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
The Thick of It / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Horizon Forbidden West (Video Game) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Red vs. Blue: The Project Freelancer Saga (Web Animation) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Ultra Fast Pony (Web Video) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5
Legostar Galactica (Webcomic) / int_dfdcd12d	type	2 + Torture = 5

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