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The Fire Never Dies

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The Fire Never Dies is an Alternate History timeline on AlternateHistory.com by Meshakhad, depicting an America that eventually experiences a successful socialist revolution, as several of the schisms that the American socialist movement suffered are averted or mended. The absence of the United States (and American war materiel) from World War I leads to a negotiated settlement rather than either side claiming victory, while the ascendance of a socialist America has far-reaching geopolitical, social, cultural and other consequences for not only America itself, but the rest of the world and the course of the 20th/21st century.The story can be found here: Part I: Labor's Star Ascendant (complete) Part II: The Red Colossus (in progress)
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_191a3673
type
Graceful Loser
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Graceful Loser: Bronstein takes his defeat in the 1920 election well, to the relief of some who feared he might use his popularity with the Red Army to launch a coup. He even asks Debs if he can return to the military afterwards. Debs refuses on the grounds that as Bronstein is the recognized head of the opposition, it would be inappropriate for him to take a senior military position.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_19da8a03
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Incurable Cough of Death
 The Fire Never Dies / int_19da8a03
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Incurable Cough of Death: US Secretary of State Robert Lansing starts coughing in the middle of a speech at the Basel Conference. He dies a few days later from the American Flu.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_19df659c
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Gone Horribly Wrong
 The Fire Never Dies / int_19df659c
comment
Subverted by the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare, which was meant to stem the tide of American arms being exported to the Entente. The sinking of the cargo ship Arabia at first seemed like a case of Gone Horribly Wrong, as it triggers the US entering the war, but that in turn sparks the Second American Revolution, bringing a complete halt to American arms exports.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_1c263b9f
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The Purge
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comment
The Purge: Following the passing of the Anti-Socialist Act, the KKK begins arresting (or just murdering) anyone they think is a threat to their vision of America. A (somewhat) heroic example: Governor Bill Haywood purges the Washington National Guard of White supporters at the start of the war.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_1d18887f
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Pay Evil unto Evil
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Pay Evil unto Evil: Huey Long's partisans were entirely willing to break into a Klansman's home and strangle him in his bed. The Army of Cleveland's Roaring Rampage of Revenge against the Army of the Ohio after the Huffington Massacres includes the use of chemical weapons.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_1e1afc1b
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Framing Device
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Framing Device: Most chapters consist of excerpts from in-universe historical texts, with one (so far) post from the alternate AH.com.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_213dc284
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Closest Thing We Got
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Closest Thing We Got: The Reds began the war with virtually no veteran officers, so it fell to the IWW's union organizers (many of whom were also elected politicians) to organize and command the Red Army. For the most part, it worked. The Commissariats (basically the Red cabinet) operate on a similar principle. Without a cadre of career civil servants to draw upon, the first Commissars are generally people without experience in government administration (although they do usually have expertise in their specific field).
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_21f60711
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Good Is Not Soft
 The Fire Never Dies / int_21f60711
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Good Is Not Soft: The Committees of Public Safety exist to promote safe working conditions. Their preferred tactic is to intimidate bosses and managers into adopting safer practices. They are described as a combination of OSHA and a protection racket. Huey Long describes the ruthless tactics used by partisans in the South, such as breaking into a Klansman's home and murdering him in his bed. One reason few of America's top businessmen actually face trial after the war is because so many were killed outright during the Revolution. This is generally referred to with the euphemism "revolutionary justice".
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_22569655
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We ARE Struggling Together
 The Fire Never Dies / int_22569655
comment
We ARE Struggling Together: Averted. Unlike our timeline, the American socialist movement remains unified behind the IWW and the Socialist Labor Party. Played straight by the Russian revolutionaries. Following the Minsk Agreement, which effectively cedes much of Eastern Europe to German control, Lenin's Bolsheviks and Kropotkin's Anarchists turn on each other. Post-Second American Revolution, there was a concerted attempt in Europe to form an anti-socialist alliance to counter the rise of American socialism in Europe, but the efforts failed due to post-Great War animosity between the formerly belligerent powers for one another. This indirectly encouraged the rise of Falangism as many of those who supported such an alliance believed their governments weak and indecisive over this and turned to the Far Right.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_22867424
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Strike Episode
 The Fire Never Dies / int_22867424
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Strike Episode: Several. Some are largely OTL strikes, but with generally better outcomes. The Great Longshoremen's Strike, on the other hand, leads to the outbreak of the Second American Revolution.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_258a5cfe
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Different World, Different Movies
 The Fire Never Dies / int_258a5cfe
comment
Different World, Different Movies: Hollywood as we know it is all but destroyed in the Revolution, given the devastation of California and the studio executives fleeing the country. It's implied that most American films produced after 1917 do not exist. An explicit example is The Jazz Singer, the first film with synchronized dialogue. Its place is taken by a film named The Cuban Rose. Averted with The General. Word of God is that Star Trek will also exist in some form.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_2a035a26
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Allohistorical Allusion
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Allohistorical Allusion: Leon Trotsky leads the Red Army (just in America). Haitian revolutionary Charlemagne Péralte is betrayed by Jean-Baptiste Conzé, one of his lieutenants. He survives this time. Notre Dame students earn their nickname of "The Fighting Irish" by fighting against the KKK. Al Capone's commando unit is called "The Outfit".
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_2b706ca
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More Dakka
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More Dakka: The default strategy of a Red general when faced with serious opposition is to hammer it flat with a massive artillery barrage.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_38ac6c7d
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Former Regime Personnel
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Former Regime Personnel: Many American officers and soldiers who opposed the Revolution but survived it choose to take their skills elsewhere: Dwight D. Eisenhower moves to Germany. A significant number of former US Navy personnel, including Vice Admiral Austin Knight, offer their services to China. Admiral William Caperton ends up as an instructor for the Royal South African Navy. The failed coup in Haiti is supported by mercenaries who previously fought for the United States and the Mexican Constitutionalists.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_39884242
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KnowWhenToFoldThem
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comment
Know When to Fold Them: When Bill Haywood and Governor Hiram Johnson negotiated the latter's submission to the Revolutionary government in Chicago in the Spring of 1918 that meant Haywood's Army of the Cascades, the California National Guard, and the Army of San Francisco under Mayor Jackson Wilson of Berkeley were more or less pointed at the same target. By the end of July it was clear to Admiral Caperton, U. S. Pacific Fleet Commander and functional ruler of White-held California, that trying to hold the Los Angeles-to-San Diego coastal strip would be futile so he announced his intent to evacuate to Panama, released whatever forces willing to take their chances surrendering to the Reds (he had never bothered to implement Wilson's order to discharge all Colored servicemen), and loaded on those civilians who preferred not to. After series of disasters for the Whites (including the fall of Salt Lake City, the withdrawal from Southern California, the Memphis Uprising, and the capture of the Lower Mississippi), Governor William P. Hobby of Texas and General Liggett of the Army of the Plains surrender to the Reds. The White government as a whole more or less conceded the war was lost by the time Wilson had his stroke and would approach the Reds for a negotiated surrender rather than delay the inevitable. Unfortunately, KKK leader General Simmons had other ideas.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_3ac2a3e3
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Deadly Gas
 The Fire Never Dies / int_3ac2a3e3
comment
Deadly Gas: Among some of the more questionable actions committed by the Reds during the Second American Revolution involves poisonous gas being used on at least two occasions to weaken/decimate the White forces and swing battles in their favour.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_3bc88a7f
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Foregone Conclusion
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comment
Foregone Conclusion: A consequence of the documentary style of writing is that many major developments are telegraphed well ahead of time: Well before the story reached the actual Second American Revolution, several excerpts and invokedWord of God made it clear that there would be a successful socialist revolution in the late 1910s. Britain will be falling to falangism.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_3d699462
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Curb-Stomp Battle
 The Fire Never Dies / int_3d699462
comment
Curb-Stomp Battle: The Battle of Miami Beach is extremely one-sided, with the White fleet (including most of the US Navy's remaining combat strength) being almost completely wiped out for few enemy casualties. Admittedly, it was a desperate gamble. The Battle of Chesapeake Bay also qualifies, except the Whites knew that their chances were negligible, and they prioritized taking as many Red ships with them as they could. The Army of the Ohio was systematically obliterated by the Red forces with everything they have - up to and including chemical weapons - within three weeks after the Reds received reports of General Huffington's orders to treat every African-American as an enemy combatant and the subsequent massacres of thousands of Black civilians. The Virginia Offensive and the Battle of Washington become this once the Reds bring in their western armies. After the war in America is over, the GDC follows through on their promise to Pancho Villa, sending two expeditionary forces to Mexico to overthrow the government there. The Mexican Constitutional Army is completely overpowered by the Red Army.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_3e7a80ee
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Second American Civil War
 The Fire Never Dies / int_3e7a80ee
comment
Second American Civil War: The Second American Revolution.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_3e8d9cd3
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Historical Hero Upgrade
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comment
Historical Hero Upgrade: Al Capone betrays the Five Points Gang to the IWW. He later appears leading a commando unit called "The Outfit". After the war, he remains in the military. Leon Bronstein's political views are significantly moderated from his OTL self. While still an ardent socialist and a believer in permanent revolution, he also believes in the importance of democratic government, firmly rejecting the notion that he ever considered launching a coup against Debs.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_43a045de
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Dropped a Bridge on Him
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comment
Dropped a Bridge on Him: Adolf Hitler is accidentally shot during the assassination of an Austrian politician in 1919, before his political career has a chance to start, condemning him to obscurity in this universe.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_48218d3d
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Neutrality Backlash
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comment
Neutrality Backlash: Governor Johnson of California alone tried to hold his state aloof from the Wilson administration and the Revolutionaries. Unforunately that put him at odds with the IWW-aligned Army of San Francisco dominating the Bay Area and the U. S. Navy's Pacific Fleet which took over Los Angeles. The Mêlée à Trois between the Reds, Whites, and California National Guard (AKA the Blues) reduced the Central Valley to famine and earned the state in general the nickname "The Golden Abbatoir".
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_489ce93a
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Capital Offensive
 The Fire Never Dies / int_489ce93a
comment
Capital Offensive: The capture of Washington DC became a main objective of the Red forces towards the end of the Second American Civil War, especially after General William J. Simmons (Leader of the KKK) launched a military coup and took over the White forces, which ended any chance of a negotiated surrender.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_48aac61d
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Chummy Commies
 The Fire Never Dies / int_48aac61d
comment
Chummy Commies: The American Socialist Union is very firmly democratic, even allowing non-socialists to run for office. They aren't afraid to get their hands dirty, however.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_48c99e19
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Death by Adaptation
 The Fire Never Dies / int_48c99e19
comment
Death by Adaptation: Several historic figures die earlier than in our history. Theodore Roosevelt does not survive his assassination attempt in 1912. Douglas MacArthur is killed at the Battle of Mine Ridge. Senator Robert LaFollete is executed after the exposure of the Chandler Scheme. General Pershing, who would had commanded US forces in WWI in Real Life, was murdered during The Coup launched by General William J. Simmons and the KKK to prevent the US government from surrendering to the Reds towards the end of the SACW. Both President Woodrow Wilson and General William J. Simmons were killed by an artillery barrage from the Reds midway through the Battle of Washington. Charles Moyer and Secretary of State Robert Lansing die from the American Flu. Adolf Hitler is killed in 1920 by a stray bullet from an assassin going after Austrian politician Ignaz Seipel.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_4e7c4536
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Wham Line
 The Fire Never Dies / int_4e7c4536
comment
Wham Line: At first, update 100 seems fairly normal, mainly covering the European reactions to the GDC officially winning the Second American Revolution, but ends with a major reveal: Britain, and not Germany, ends up falling to Falangism. For those who don't recognize those names, all of the people Churchill listed were real life British Fascists. In the middle of a paragraph describing an assassination attempt on an Austrian politician, we get this:
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_50b05d30
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Disproportionate Retribution
 The Fire Never Dies / int_50b05d30
comment
Disproportionate Retribution: Senator Robert LaFollete ended up being executed by the Whites faction for being associated with the Chandler Scheme (a desperate plan for a settled peace with the Reds by Republican Congressman Walter M. Chandler which involve the moderate socialist LaFollete become vice-president and then replacing Woodrow Wilson upon his resignation and impeachment), despite the fact that LaFollete didn't even know Chandler had such a scheme, let alone being a willing participant for it. An incident between an African-American sailor and Ku Klux Klansmen during the Second American Civil War caused the Wilson Administration to remove all African-Americans servicemen from the US military effective immediately. This backfired HORRIBLY for the White faction as it led to the Great Mutiny, causing much of the Atlantic Fleet to defect to the Reds.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_54cbd0cb
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This Is Unforgivable!
 The Fire Never Dies / int_54cbd0cb
comment
Subverted with the Reds in comparison, who while no saints ultimately come off as the better of the two forces, and in fact responded furiously to atrocities committed by the Whites. Their response to the Huffington Massacres was to systematically annihilate the Army of the Ohio with everything they got. The exception to this is the Army of San Francisco, which is no less responsible for the Golden Abattoir than their opponents (the California National Guard and the Army of Southern California). Downplayed for all three as their actions were more out of necessity.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_5674af1a
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The Famine
 The Fire Never Dies / int_5674af1a
comment
The Famine: Almost occurred in the UK as a result of the Second American Revolution cutting off grain supplies, though it was averted by a timely deal made with the Reds who controlled much of the agricultural regions of the US. The three-way war in California's Central Valley, complete with forcible requisitions of crops by all sides, did cause one there.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_5ac34441
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Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp"
 The Fire Never Dies / int_5ac34441
comment
Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp": A downplayed version: the common term for far-right authoritarian ideologies in this timeline is not fascism, but falangism. The less-common acronym GSM (gender and sexual minorities) replaces LGBT and its variants.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_5d753b19
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The Smurfette Principle
 The Fire Never Dies / int_5d753b19
comment
The Smurfette Principle: Activist Mary Harris Jones, better known as Mother Jones, is the sole woman to command an army during the Second American Revolution, leading the Army of Knoxville in the Appalachians. After the war, she becomes the ASU's first Deputy Premier.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_617f0563
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Heel–Face Turn
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comment
Heel–Face Turn: The Great Mutiny, which sees most of the Atlantic Fleet switch sides.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_61c683d2
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We Have Reserves
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We Have Reserves: Averted. Despite the Red Army having a significant numerical advantage, they avoid getting their soldiers killed unnecessarily, mostly striking where the enemy is overstretched.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_6383a034
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The Mutiny
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The Mutiny: The Great Mutiny during the Second American Revolution saw more than half the US Atlantic Fleet defecting to the Reds.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_67d90683
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Fictional Political Party
 The Fire Never Dies / int_67d90683
comment
Fictional Political Party: The Post-SACW American political system has political parties which either only exists because of the revolution, or had existed before as in Real Life but had been radically altered by the revolution. Chief among them include (as of the 1920 Elections): The Socialist Labour Party (SLP) is the leading party of the revolution and the nation, and at the start included leading Socialists such as Eugene Debs, Billy Haywood, Mother Jones and William Trautmann. They have a more moderate and pragmatic platform for socialist America among the mainstream socialist parties. The Revolutionary Socialist Party (RSP), headed by the likes of Leon Bronstein, Vincent St. John and Emma Goldman, is much less unified but much more revolutionary/radical than the SLP, calling for an openly confrontational foreign policy, the complete restructuring of American government, and more extensive series of postwar trials. The Progressive Party is headed by the likes of Hiram Johnson and Sam Rayburn, consisting of politicians who are not originally socialist or still refrained from socialism, but had made their peace with the new socialist America they had found themselves in. They represent small cooperatives against big unions and favour the continued existence of a free market with within a market socialist economic framework. The Federalist Party, consisting of non-socialist figures from pre-revolution who remained like Clarence Edward McCartney and Calvin Coolidge, is the most openly reactionary and hostile to the socialist revolution (though not to the point of sedition), condemning the 'excesses' of the revolution and calling for restoration of the old flag, capital and traditions of old America.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_6b2b3b59
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The Reveal
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comment
The Reveal: See Wham Line for more details.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_7276d0de
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Mugging the Monster
 The Fire Never Dies / int_7276d0de
comment
Mugging the Monster: The Carl Johnson incident is an unusual example. On his own, one black sailor was no threat to three deputized Klansmen. However, they did not reckon with his CO, one Ernest J. King, who was infamous (both IOTL and ITTL) for his temper, as well as being A Father to His Men.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_73f8d546
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Working-Class Hero
 The Fire Never Dies / int_73f8d546
comment
Working-Class Hero: The Red Army and ASU government are made of these. Most of their generals are not veteran soldiers, but experienced organizers.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_7453bc5b
type
Spared by the Adaptation
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comment
Spared by the Adaptation: Daniel DeLeon, a highly influential American socialist thinker, survives the illness that killed him IOTL thanks to his newspaper, the Daily Worker, being more successful, which in turn improves his living situation and access to medical care. His illness does force him to temporarily withdraw from politics for a time. As of the start of Part 2, his health has once again begun to fail, leading him to retire. The Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa never begins his raids on the United States that led to him being killed as he receives support from American socialists. When the Second American Revolution breaks out, he brings his army across the border, offering his assistance to the Reds in exchange for their help in winning the Mexican Revolution. In turn, Villa coming back to Mexico with an American army at his side averts the assassination of fellow Mexican revolutionary Emilio Zapata. Benjamin Hanford, who was Eugene Debs' running mate in multiple presidential elections, also avoids an early death, going on to serve as Commissar for Foreign Affairs (the ASU equivalent of Secretary of State or Foreign Minister).
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_77a495f1
type
Historical Badass Upgrade
 The Fire Never Dies / int_77a495f1
comment
Historical Badass Upgrade: Pretty much every single Red Army general, as almost none of them had any military experience before the Revolution, mostly being veteran organizers. For the most part, they rise to the challenge. The only ones who don't fit this are Bronstein (who also did it in our history) and the few actual soldiers like Charles Whittlesley and Omar Bradley.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_79a60aec
type
For Want of a Nail
 The Fire Never Dies / int_79a60aec
comment
For Want Of A Nail: The point of divergence is that former Idaho governor Frank Steunenberg is not assassinated by Harry Orchard, as the latter blows himself up while preparing the bomb. Theodore Roosevelt does not survive his assassination attempt, simply because the bullet strikes him on the other side of his chest and doesn't hit his printed speech and glasses case. As a result of changes from the points of divergence, the events of the Russian Revolution happened differently, such that it was the Anarchists under Peter Kropotkin who led an uprising at St Petersburg in August to seize control of Russia, followed by a shaky alliance with the Bolsheviks after that failed. The Russian Civil War which ensued ended in a White victory, with Kropotkin and his anarchists executed and the Bolsheviks retreating to the Belarus Democratic Republic.
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Pocket Protector
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comment
Theodore Roosevelt does not survive his assassination attempt, simply because the bullet strikes him on the other side of his chest and doesn't hit his printed speech and glasses case.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_7c435220
type
Rushmore Refacement
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comment
Rushmore Refacement: After the Simmons coup, the KKK turns the incomplete Lincoln Memorial into the Nathan Bedford Forrest Memorial. Fortunately, the actual statue of Lincoln was still in the Bronx at the time. After the war, the Lincoln Memorial is built... in Central Park, where it serves as the backdrop to Debs' inauguration as Premier.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_830b0ac9
type
Final Battle
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comment
Final Battle: The Battle of Washington would be one for the Second American Civil War, culminating with the Reds storming the city across the frozen Potomac river after encircling it and bombarding the city's defences as well as other critical locations with artillery bombardment. It took a month overall and levelled much of the city before the White defenders and what's left of the US government finally surrendered. While the civil war would continue a little longer with the Reds cleaning up the fragmented White forces across the country, the fall of Washington DC marks the effective end of the Whites as a unified military force and with it the end of the United States of America.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_875615dd
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Truth in Television
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comment
For those who don't recognize those names, all of the people Churchill listed were real life British Fascists.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_8976acda
type
Civil War
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comment
Late in the Civil War, President Wilson had suffered a stroke, the Whites had failed to secure foreign aid, and the Reds had by then captured most of the country. At this juncture the US government had finally decided to stop delaying the inevitable and sent overtures to the Reds' leadership for a negotiated surrender. Then General William J. Simmons, leader of the Ku Klux Klan, launched a military coup and took over the leadership of the White forces in opposition to it, destroying not only any chance for a peaceful end of the war but also any remaining legitimacy of the US government.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_8b60a09b
type
Capitalism Is Bad
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comment
Capitalism Is Bad: The story is definitely pro-socialism. Meshakhad is a member of the real life IWW.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_8e69fee0
type
Double-Blind What-If
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comment
Double-Blind What-If: Meshakhad herself said that nobody in-universe would ever identify the actual point of divergence of Harry Orchard blowing himself up. As such, in an althistoria.net (the Fictional Counterpart to AlternateHistory.com) interlude, several users instead discuss what would've happened had President Wilson given into the Longshoremen's Strike and negotiated (the strike against US intervention in World War 1). One proposed result being that the Entente wins, but with Debs becoming US President, Heinrich Himmler ruling Germany, and Russia and Germany allying against a non-Falangist Entente.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_8ed5c6e4
type
Asshole Victim
 The Fire Never Dies / int_8ed5c6e4
comment
Asshole Victim: Meshakhad enjoys condemning racists to unpleasant ends: Kaspar K. Kubli, a KKK-affiliated politician, is mauled to death by a bear after fleeing with the remnants of the Oregon National Guard into California. Ellison "Cotton Ed" Smith, a former Senator and a virulent racist, dies of pneumonia due to being unable to keep his London flat heated.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_95f4a369
type
Attack on One Is an Attack on All
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comment
Attack on One Is an Attack on All: The Great Mutiny of the Atlantic Fleet during the Second American Revolution was caused by their collective outrage over the Wilson Administration's disproportionate (and undoubtedly racist) decision to remove all African-American men from military service following an incident involving a black sailor and Klansmen. Many ships and their sailors and even commanders would rather defect to the Reds than throw their fellow African-American sailors overboard.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_9a7f6233
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Fictional Video Game
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comment
Fictional Video Game: One of the in-universe AlternateHistory.com threads references a game called War Plan, implied to be this universe's version of Hearts of Iron.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_9d12bbc1
type
Foreshadowing
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comment
Foreshadowing: When Wilson was first elected, his Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, tried to segregate the Navy. IOTL, he succeeded, with black sailors reduced to menial labor positions. ITTL, he received pushback from white officers who thought that segregation would interfere with operations (for example, by requiring all ships to have separate mess halls for black personnel). This was enough that he settled for segregating naval bases and effectively preventing black officers from advancing their careers, but allowing black enlisted sailors to remain in the navy. This all foreshadowed the Great Mutiny, where not only did the black sailors revolt over Daniels' attempt to expel them, but many of their white comrades joined them.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_a00c13e0
type
Awesome Moment of Crowning
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comment
Awesome Moment of Crowning: Technically it's a premiership inauguration, but the Inauguration of Premier Eugene V. Debs on 1st May 1920 marked the official beginning of the American Socialist Union as a firmly established socialist state.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_a0db7803
type
It's Personal
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comment
It's Personal: Commander Ernest King was not a hardcore socialist and was more or less swept up to the Reds' side by the Great Mutiny which saw the US Atlantic Fleet defecting to the socialists, but he had a very personal beef with his former high command, having railed for years against the conservative Navy establishment and holding his superiors in utter disdain for refusing to implement radical reforms he believes to be crucial to modernize and strengthen the navy. Add to the loss of the Texas and New York at the Battle of Chesapeake Bay, King (now an admiral) was left very eager and wanting to destroy the White navy as an effective fighting force to make up for years of frustration and earlier setbacks. He would get his chance to do so at the Battle of Miami Beach.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_a5e0c01
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As Himself
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comment
As Himself: In-universe example. After the war, George Patton makes a film, Death Special, about the armored car battles of Colorado. As he was the White commander in these battles, he naturally appears As Himself, although he is explicitly the antagonist.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_a67b86a7
type
General Ripper
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comment
General Ripper: General Vincent St. John. He's competent, but utterly ruthless (and fairly egotistical). When Salt Lake City refused to surrender, he razed the city with artillery (although that might also be a case of prioritizing his men's lives).
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_a8559a9f
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RealLife
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comment
General Pershing, who would had commanded US forces in WWI in Real Life, was murdered during The Coup launched by General William J. Simmons and the KKK to prevent the US government from surrendering to the Reds towards the end of the SACW.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_ac1e30d8
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Red Scare
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comment
Red Scare: Starting even as the Second American Revolution is still ongoing, Red America is already causing terror across the world over the potential spread of Communism. This would have wide-ranging effects down the timeline, including causing the rise of Falangism as the TFND-verse's equivalent of Fascism.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_ad4a45be
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Final Boss
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comment
Final Boss: General Simmons, leader of the KKK effectively became this for the Reds after his coup in Washington DC towards the end of the war as the De-facto leader of the White forces in a stroke-stricken Wilson's absence.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_b0cac376
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The Usurper
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comment
The Usurper: General Simmons, leader of the KKK, would culminate into this for the US government as the KKK gained increasing prominence in the White forces, culminating in Simmons launching a coup after Wilson's stroke in opposition to the US government's peace overtures to the Reds and becoming the effective leader of the Whites in the final phase of the Second American Civil War.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_b2c737e8
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Klingon Promotion
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Klingon Promotion: Some of the officers who participated in the Great Mutiny ended up taking the positions of the senior officers they'd helped kill.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_b4a6ae4c
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Everyone Has Standards
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comment
Everyone Has Standards: Leon Bronstein was absolutely enraged when he heard reports of the Huffington Massacres, and responded to the Army of the Ohio's massacre of thousands of innocent African-American civilians with orders to Red forces to destroy the Army of the Ohio with everything they got. Said White army would be wiped out within three weeks. As much as Winston Churchill oppose the Socialists of America as a matter of principle, he opposes Falangism just as if not much more, and greatly regretted not noticing and do more to stop its rise in Britain until it was too late due to being too distracted by the Red Scare. Even the Ku Klux Klan has a moment, taking the American Flu very seriously (while President Wilson doesn't) and using their resources to enforce quarantines and recruit nurses in White territory. Of course, they don't care about helping any black victims...
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_b4fca546
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Alternate History Wank
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comment
Alternate History Wank: For the Industrial Workers of the World.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_b7248073
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My Country, Right or Wrong
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comment
My Country, Right or Wrong: This is the attitude of the Texas Red Guard, largely formed out of the former Army of the Plains. They may not like what America has become, but they'll still defend it against a foreign incursion (in this case a raid by the Mexican army). Most officers and crew in the US Pacific Fleet take this attitude, choosing to return home and serve in the Red Navy rather than accept permanent exile. Many are motivated primarily by their love of the Navy itself.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_bbe740e2
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Tyrant Takes the Helm
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comment
Tyrant Takes the Helm: After President Wilson suffered a stroke and the remainder of the US government considered surrendering to the Reds, General William J. Simmons, Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, took control of the White forces in a military coup, destroying not only any chance of a negotiated surrender but also any remaining legitimacy of the US government. Simmons fully intended to remake America in the KKK's white supremacist image if given the chance, but the Reds' imminent victory ensured it would never come to pass. A Flash Forward in Update 100 revealed this happened to Britain of all places years after the Second American Revolution, falling under a Falangist regime headed by the likes of Baron Garvagh, General Fuller, William Joyce and others.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_bc74ef27
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Berserk Button
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comment
Berserk Button: Mexican General Amelio Robles Ã�vila explodes in a rage after he is misgendered by the American general Louis Tikasnote Truth in Television for Robles, who supposedly killed two men who tried to out him. The incident briefly lands Robles in an American jail cell, but fortunately cooler heads prevail. It helps that Tikas, who had not realized Robles was a trans man and thought he was being courteous by addressing him with a female title, personally picks Robles up from jail. The incident ultimately helps advance the cause of LGBT rights in the ASU, with the common takeaway being that Robles' reaction to being called a woman was exactly how any man would respond, thus proving that he was indeed a man.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_bce728ca
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Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal
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comment
Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal: The Great Mutiny is triggered by an order banning blacks from serving in the US military.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_c145f69b
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Subverted Trope
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comment
Haitian revolutionary Charlemagne Péralte is betrayed by Jean-Baptiste Conzé, one of his lieutenants. He survives this time.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_c2288824
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A Nazi by Any Other Name
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comment
A Nazi by Any Other Name: Falangism, which became the TFND-verse's analogue of Fascism, became prominent following the Great War and the Second American Revolution in part due to the Red Scare. A Flash Forward revealed Britain to be among the nations which fell under a Falangist dictatorship.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_c3c18143
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Hope Spot
 The Fire Never Dies / int_c3c18143
comment
The White government as a whole more or less conceded the war was lost by the time Wilson had his stroke and would approach the Reds for a negotiated surrender rather than delay the inevitable. Unfortunately, KKK leader General Simmons had other ideas.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_c8c968c3
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The Alliance
 The Fire Never Dies / int_c8c968c3
comment
The Alliance: The Alliance of Socialist Republics (ASR), a military alliance created by the ASU and its allies (Cuba, Hawaii, Mexico, and Puerto Rico, with Haiti joining later).
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_c9aea8c8
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Armies Are Evil
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Armies Are Evil: The White forces increasingly became this as the KKK which Wilson aligned with become increasingly influential within it, on top of growing desperation and fanaticism as the Red forces gain the upper hand in the Second American Civil War. The Army of the Ohio exemplifies this after it comes under the command of KKK member General Huffington, who made a standing order to treat every African-American as an enemy combatant following the Memphis Uprising, resulting in the Huffington Massacres where White forces murdered thousands of innocent African-American civilians. Subverted with the Reds in comparison, who while no saints ultimately come off as the better of the two forces, and in fact responded furiously to atrocities committed by the Whites. Their response to the Huffington Massacres was to systematically annihilate the Army of the Ohio with everything they got. The exception to this is the Army of San Francisco, which is no less responsible for the Golden Abattoir than their opponents (the California National Guard and the Army of Southern California). Downplayed for all three as their actions were more out of necessity. Largely averted with General Liggett's Army of the Plains, which fights honorably. When they surrender, they are allowed to simply go home. Many are later reorganized into the Texas Red Guard to fight the Mexican incursion.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_caf89e54
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Taking You with Me
 The Fire Never Dies / int_caf89e54
comment
The Battle of Chesapeake Bay also qualifies, except the Whites knew that their chances were negligible, and they prioritized taking as many Red ships with them as they could.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_cc4b45f6
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Word of God
 The Fire Never Dies / int_cc4b45f6
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Well before the story reached the actual Second American Revolution, several excerpts and invokedWord of God made it clear that there would be a successful socialist revolution in the late 1910s.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_ceec4df5
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Roaring Rampage of Revenge
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Roaring Rampage of Revenge: After the Memphis uprising and the death of General Carleton at the hands of a black partisan, the Klansman-turned-general Joe Huffington takes command of the Army of the Ohio in Kentucky and Tennessee. He issues an order that all African-Americans are to be treated as enemy combatants, resulting in the slaughter of thousands of black civilians. In response, the Red Army shifts its strategy from "slowly strangle the Army of the Ohio" to "wipe them out by any means necessary". This includes the use of chemical weapons by the Army of Cleveland. Within three weeks, the Army of the Ohio was systematically annihilated.
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An Arm and a Leg
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An Arm and a Leg
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In Spite of a Nail
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comment
In Spite of a Nail: The death of Theodore Roosevelt less than a month before the 1912 election doesn't change the outcome. Wilson still wins, albeit not in the landslide he had IOTL, while Debs and the SLP win several states.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_d397657d
type
Hoist by His Own Petard
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comment
Hoist by His Own Petard: The Wilson Administration's decision to crack down hard on the socialists and labour unions when they protested America's entry to the First World War would backfire horribly, as the American Left was much more unified and coordinated than in OTL. Rather than being fragmented and hammered down, they rose up and launched the Second American Revolution. The Wilson Administration's racist and disproportionate decision to remove all African-American servicemen from the US military during the Second American Revolution (following an incident involving an African-American sailor and Klansmen) triggered the Great Mutiny which saw more than half of the entire Atlantic Fleet defecting to the Reds. Similar to OTL in how he handled the Spanish Flu, President Wilson refused to act in any way to halt the spread of the American Flu on the grounds that the military situation was 'too perilous', and even opined that it was 'divine punishment' upon the Reds. Unfortunately for the Whites, this left them much less prepared to deal with the American Flu than the Reds and leaving them decimated by it when it inevitably spread to them. The KKK and Southern Whites, aligned with the Wilson Administration, had made Blacks' already miserable lives in the South even worse over the Civil War out of paranoia of Red sympathies, racism and sheer frustration at the economic deprivations they are enduring due to the conflict. This only served to galvanise the African-Americans into supporting the revolution, and with support and supplies provided to them by the IWW, they would launch the Memphis Uprising which set the entire 'Black Belt' aflame, which would eventually lead to the collapse of the White forces in the Southern United States.
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Backed by the Pentagon
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comment
Backed by the Pentagon: In-universe example. Red Army Studios is a film studio controlled by the Red Army, so their films are outright made by the military. While they initially focused on propaganda, after the war they transitioned into films made primarily for entertainment that retained a military focus. Their stable of directors includes Buster Keaton and George Patton.
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Richard Nixon, the Used Car Salesman
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comment
Richard Nixon, the Used Car Salesman: Leon Trotsky (known ITTL by his birth name of Leon Bronstein) moves to the United States and joins the IWW, becoming the leader of the New York Committee of Public Safety and eventually a general in the American Red Army. Tom Clancy, Hillary Clinton, F.W. de Klerke, Rand Paul, Dennis Prager, Condoleeza Rice, Aaron Sorkin, George Soros, and Matt Ward are the authors of some of the in-universe historical texts. Huey Long is arrested at the start of the Second American Revolution in 1917 as a suspected socialist sympathizer (on account of him being an attorney who specializes in worker's compensation cases). He and his fellow detainees are soon broken out of jail and join a Red partisan group. Many notable labor activists, such as Bill "Big Bill" Haywood, Vincent St. John, and William Trautmann, successfully run for political office. Others (also including Haywood, St. John, and Trautmann) become military commanders in the Second American Revolution. Newt Gingrich never goes into politics and instead remains an author of Alternate History, becoming highly successful. George Patton becomes a film director after the war. William Joyce, known IOTL as the Nazi radio propagandist Lord Haw-Haw becomes a leader in the British falangist government.
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Salt the Earth
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comment
Salt the Earth: As the Civil War turns against the Whites, they began to implement scorch earth policies to either slow down the Reds or simply to spite them.
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Murphy's Bullet
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comment
Murphy's Bullet: An Austrian socialist opens fire on right-wing politician Ignaz Siegel while he is giving a speech to a crowd. Of his shots, one hits (and kills Siegel). Another hits a nearby building. The third hits one of the people in the crowd... a local painter named Adolf Hitler.
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Curb-Stomp Battle
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comment
Leon Bronstein was absolutely enraged when he heard reports of the Huffington Massacres, and responded to the Army of the Ohio's massacre of thousands of innocent African-American civilians with orders to Red forces to destroy the Army of the Ohio with everything they got. Said White army would be wiped out within three weeks.
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Monumental Battle
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comment
Monumental Battle: During the Battle of Washington, firefights break out in the Smithsonian and the Capitol. Together with artillery barrages, this left Washington DC pretty much levelled by the time the battle ended.
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Historical Downgrade
 The Fire Never Dies / int_dc7c48c6
comment
Historical Downgrade: Adolf Hitler is killed before ever starting his political career, so he is simply an unremarkable WWI veteran.
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Monumental Damage
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comment
Monumental Damage: The Battle of Washington DC resulted in considerable damage to the capital of the US and many of its famous landmarks during the month of battle overall and ten days worth of urban warfare, most notably the flattening of the White House and the State, War, and Navy Building (Currently called the Eisenhower Executive Office Building) by artillery fire. This had the incidental effect of killing off General Simmons and President Wilson and decapitating the military leadership of the city's White forces in a single stroke.
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type
Rightful King Returns
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comment
Rightful King Returns: Played With. After Hawaii votes to declare independence, a second referendum is held on the question of restoring the Hawaiian monarchy (deposed after the US takeover). The vote goes against a monarchy, and Hawaii becomes a socialist republic. However, the monarchy is later given Iolani Palace and a stipend to promote Hawaiian culture. While the Hawaiian monarchy has no position in the Hawaiian government, they do exist once again.
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Historical Villain Upgrade
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comment
Historical Villain Upgrade: Woodrow Wilson, who responds to the civil unrest with increasingly harsh measures. He also enacts racist policies far beyond anything he did IOTL.
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The Klan
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comment
The Klan: The KKK is (re)formed as IOTL, but becomes prominent much earlier when the Wilson Administration turns to them for recruitment, internal security and other roles and purposes following the outbreak of the Second American Revolution, a decision which would ultimately backfire on the Whites faction in more ways than one. While the Klan is rendered extinct in the ASU, some of its former leaders survive, ultimately fleeing to South Africa and forming a new Klan there.
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Decapitation Strike
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comment
Decapitation Strike: At the Battle of Washington, the Reds managed one against the White forces in the capital city when they directed a massive artillery barrage downtown, taking the White forces by surprise. When the dust settled, both President Woodrow Wilson and General Simmons were killed along with General Hiram W. Evans and most of the Army of the Chesapeake’s leadership.
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Flash Forward
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comment
A Flash Forward in Update 100 revealed this happened to Britain of all places years after the Second American Revolution, falling under a Falangist regime headed by the likes of Baron Garvagh, General Fuller, William Joyce and others.
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type
War Is Hell
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comment
War Is Hell: The Second American Civil War had many brutal moments and war crimes to rival the horrors of the Great War in Europe. Notable mention include the brutal fighting and devastating famine in California which earned the state the nickname as "The Golden Abattoir" note Abattoir means 'Slaughterhouse', the use of chemical weapons and city-flattening artillery barrages by the Reds, atrocities by the KKK and the Whites such as the Huffington Massacres, the American Flu...
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Washington D.C. Invasion
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comment
Washington D.C. Invasion: The climax of the Second American Civil War was the Battle of Washington, which culminated in the invasion of Washington DC itself. With the Reds' crushing numerical superiority, the White forces would surrender after ten days of urban warfare.
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type
Riches to Rags
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comment
Riches to Rags: Many wealthy Americans lose the majority of their fortunes to the Revolution. Many flee abroad, such as Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Harvey Firestone, while others are forced to find new forms of employment. It is noted that a number of former investors ended up as math teachers, while many industrialists became engineers, often at the firms they used to run.
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 The Fire Never Dies / int_fd94c4ac
type
Theme Naming
 The Fire Never Dies / int_fd94c4ac
comment
Theme Naming: As with the Civil War, the Whites name their armies after geographic features (e.g. Army of the Chesapeake, Army of the Plains). The Reds name theirs after cities (e.g. Army of Manhattan, Army of Denver). The exception is Bill Haywood's Army of Cascades, which follows the White theme despite being a Red army. Industrial cooperatives (worker-owned companies) are named for their place of origin, usually their home city. Following the Soviet model, Red military aircraft are named after their manufacturer, such as the Buf-1 bomber from the Buffalo Air and Motor Cooperative.
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The Fire Never Dies

The following is a list of statements referring to the current page from other pages.

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A Nazi by Any Other Name / int_de567625
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Alternate History Wank / int_de567625
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Attack on One Is an Attack on All / int_de567625
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Awesome Moment of Crowning / int_de567625
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Backed by the Pentagon / int_de567625
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Badass Preacher / int_de567625
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Capitalism Is Bad / int_de567625
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Chummy Commies / int_de567625
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Closest Thing We Got / int_de567625
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Cool Versus Awesome / int_de567625
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Deadly Gas / int_de567625
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Different States of America / int_de567625
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Even Evil Has Loved Ones / int_de567625
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Exit, Pursued by a Bear / int_de567625
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Fictional Political Party / int_de567625
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Former Regime Personnel / int_de567625
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General Ripper / int_de567625
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Gone Horribly Right / int_de567625
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Gone Horribly Wrong / int_de567625
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Government in Exile / int_de567625
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Historical Badass Upgrade / int_de567625
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Historical Hero Upgrade / int_de567625
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Historical Villain Upgrade / int_de567625
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Hope Spot / int_de567625
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Incurable Cough of Death / int_de567625
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Know When to Fold 'Em / int_de567625
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Mêlée à Trois / int_de567625
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Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal / int_de567625
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Monumental Battle / int_de567625
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Monumental Damage / int_de567625
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More Dakka / int_de567625
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Mugging the Monster / int_de567625
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Murphy's Bullet / int_de567625
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My Country, Right or Wrong / int_de567625
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Neutrality Backlash / int_de567625
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Politically Incorrect Villain / int_de567625
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Richard Nixon, the Used Car Salesman / int_de567625
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Riches to Rags / int_de567625
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Roaring Rampage of Revenge / int_de567625
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Rushmore Refacement / int_de567625
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Second American Civil War / int_de567625
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Suddenly Significant City / int_de567625
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Taking You with Me / int_de567625
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The Coup / int_de567625
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The Klan / int_de567625
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The Mutiny / int_de567625
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The Revolution Will Not Be Vilified / int_de567625
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The Smurfette Principle / int_de567625
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Tyrant Takes the Helm / int_de567625
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Villainous Valour / int_de567625
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War Is Hell / int_de567625
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Washington D.C. Invasion / int_de567625
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We ARE Struggling Together / int_de567625
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We Have Reserves / int_de567625
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What a Senseless Waste of Human Life / int_de567625