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Circular Reasoning
- 263 statements
- 49 feature instances
- 32 referencing feature instances
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Begging the Question used recursively. A is true because B is true. B is true because C is true. C is true because A is true. The proof simply circles around and around, with nothing in it that isn't being proved by itself. This is a logical fallacy, because it disallows the possibility that all three are false and, like Begging the Question, presupposes the truth of the thing it's supposed to be providing an argument to prove the truth of. To summarize, the one using it thinks that their claim proves itself; any argument that uses circular reasoning can be boiled down to "it's true because it's true." If A, B, or C have independent proofs that are "outside the loop", it is no longer circular reasoning. The simplest form of this is a tautology (like defining "sports writer" as "a writer who writes about sports".) See also Shaped Like Itself and Famous for Being Famous. A similar concept is a logic loop, a type of Logic Bomb where a series of thoughts leads to itself. The Tautological Templar lives by this trope, assuming that they're inherently good and therefore everything they say or do is inherently good, too. Looks like this fallacy, but isn't. Algorithms that describe decision-making processes often loop back to the decision point, but being decisions they have more than one possible circle. These algorithms, while circular, describe a process rather than making an argument. As mentioned above, a logic loop is kind of like circular reasoning but in the other way. Instead of “A is true because B is true because C is true because A is true� (circular reasoning) it's “A is true; therefore B is true; therefore C is true; therefore A is true.� While not a fallacy,note Since A is assumed/ proven to be true by data outside the loop a logic loop is a Logic Bomb and its best to steer machines away from them. Most humans will recognize the futility of the exercise once one loop has been completed but most machines can't. Axioms are considered self-evidently valid, and thus are accepted as "true because they are true." (For example, “A = A� or “The whole is greater than the part�, or "If A = B and B = C then A = C.") This is not fallacious because axioms form the basis for other logical arguments. We're not trying to prove axioms; we're using them to prove other things. Shaped Like Itself is when something is described recursively, as in “an apple-colored apple� or “a round circle.� This may indicate vague thinking, but isn’t inherently fallacious since we’re describing rather than proving anything. |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_15b46ac7 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_15b46ac7 | comment |
Starting A New Life For The Discarded All Rounder uses this line of reasoning when Roa's home country tries to explain how its apprenticeship system is "flawless." Mentor was once an apprentice.-> Mentor was certified. -> Mentor gets his own apprentice. -> Apprentice doesn't get certified. -> Apprentice winds up in a slum, begging for coin or food because no other mentor will take him. -> Apprentice had no talent. If the apprentice had talent, mentor would have certified him. The top brass utterly refuses to acknowledge the flaws in the steps of this flowchart. First, just because you were a good apprentice doesn't guarantee that you're going to be a good mentor. Second, just because the apprentice wasn't certified by one mentor, doesn't mean he has no talent at all and maybe he would have learned better with another mentor, or even a mentor in a different field, if another mentor could take him in, instead of treating him as radioactive for "quitting" or "failing" because the last didn't certify him. Lastly, "having no talent" isn't the only reason an apprentice might not be certified by a mentor. As the case of Roa himself demonstrates, there is no oversight and there's nothing stopping the mentor from acts of malice against the apprentice, including denying certification just to abuse and exploit the apprentice, and then using the very same stigma to unilaterally expel the apprentice at the first convenience. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_2268de37 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_2268de37 | comment |
Monroe's dad in Grimm when he learns his son's marrying a Fuchsbau. This starts a huge argument, during which Bart starts ranting that mixed marriages destroy families: "It's happening already!" In other words, he disapproves of Monroe marrying Rosalee, because they're having an argument, because he disapproves of Monroe marrying Rosalee. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_264e6a3c | type |
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In Waking Up As A Spaceship, countries discriminate against the artificially created Nekomi race, chase them out of their homes, deny them legal employment, and leave them no option but to turn to crime then use the fact that they're criminals as a result to justify the discrimination in the first place. Kuon, first mate of the protagonist, gets called out on it when Abyssal rescues a Nekomi from space-pirates and Kuon objects, lampshading the circular reasoning. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_27906e15 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_27906e15 | comment |
Shows up in one episode of Puffin Forest. The town council and guards look the other way in regards to the black market, because the trade of illegal magic items is the lifeblood of the town. Ben's character points out that there is not much point in there being a black market if the town council doesn't oppose it, and they could just make the trade legal, but the Inquisitor argues that shutting down the black market would ruin the town. In other words, the black market is the lifeblood of the town, and they can't legalize it because then there wouldn't be a black market anymore. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_28b2079a | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_28b2079a | comment |
In Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando, Ratchet and Clank come across a Circular Reasoning logic puzzle in the middle of nowhere inside of a desert cavern. The "puzzle" consists of using an upgraded wrench, currently encased in glass, to gain a rock which is also encased in glass, in order to break the glass containing the wrench. Clank is amused by the challenge and briefly tries to deduce how to solve it, but it's obvious that since each requires the other, it's impossible without Taking a Third Option, which Ratchet does by using his own wrench. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_2d01f8dc | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_2d01f8dc | comment |
During one Beavis and Butt-Head music video segment, Beavis asks why a certain person in the video is on TV. Butt-head says he's on TV because he's famous. What's he famous for? He's famous for being on TV. This goes back and forth for awhile, with Butt-Head getting increasingly irritated that Beavis doesn't get it. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_36092143 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_36092143 | comment |
The Little Prince encounters a tippler on his way to Earth. When asked why he drinks, the tippler explains that he wants to forget. Forget what? His shame. And what's he ashamed of? Of drinking. The Prince later meets a businessman who thinks the stars belong to him, and the Prince notes that he reasons in a similar way. The value of owning stars is that they make him rich, and he wants to be rich so he can buy more stars. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_3ae518ad | type |
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Idiocracy: Employed by the Presidential Cabinet members when Joe fruitlessly tries to explain to them why they should stop watering crops with Brawndo (a sports drink). | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_3eacc2fd | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_3eacc2fd | comment |
Subverted in an episode of Corner Gas. Brent is convinced to give up coffee, since he only drinks it to stay awake, and he has trouble staying awake because he can't sleep at night, and he can't sleep at night because he drinks so much coffee. Turns out, without coffee he just sleeps all the time instead. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_3fbd173e | type |
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In Freefall, Florence is given a direct order to like the mayor, trust her, and want to make her happy. Much later, when asked if she wants the order canceled, she refuses, stating that she trusts the mayor and removing the order would not make her happy. It's removed anyway, on the grounds that she's "obviously hit a limit in self-diagnostics". | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_45a5beb2 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_45a5beb2 | comment |
In the WordGirl episode "Mr. Big", WordGirl thinks the description of a strange new product called the Thing is very vague and defines the episode's associated vocabulary words, "vague" and "specific", to customers who own their own Things... by saying "vague" means "not specific" and "specific" means "not vague". The customers are confused, and WordGirl defines the words again, this time actually explaining in more detail what they mean. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_468bebb0 | type |
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Discworld: In Jingo, the long-lost island of Leshp resurfaces in the sea between Ankh-Morpork and Klatch. Both nations have been at peace for decades and have no reason for conflict, but because Leshp is in such a strategic position and would be a natural staging point for a conflict, they can't afford to let the other country possess it. In Making Money, this is why The Department of Post Mortem Communications can't be called necromancy: |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_48d37237 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_48d37237 | comment |
Employed by the train robots in Broken Age. They need the "Young Hero" to save the runaway train. Because the Young Hero is the only one that can save them, the train doesn't start until the he arrives. The robots are thus completely horrified by Young Hero's disappearance, because then no one will save them. The issue is a little justified: they were built to entertain a kid eager for something exciting. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_4e5b6428 | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_4e5b6428 | comment |
In Making Money, this is why The Department of Post Mortem Communications can't be called necromancy: | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_4e5b6428 | featureApplicability |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_50bcf7a6 | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_50bcf7a6 | comment |
Roxy and Kanaya have a conversation that veers into this during Act 6 Act 6 Intermission 5 of Homestuck: | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_53a0bd32 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_53a0bd32 | comment |
In The Twilight Zone episode, "Five Characters in Search of an Exit," when the major pounds on the wall, the clown sings, "We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here."note This line came from a World War 1 song reflecting soldiers' increasing disillusionment with the war, in that they no longer, in fact, knew why they were there. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_5755b96a | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_5755b96a | comment |
The Order of the Stick: Though she ultimately turns out to be right, Elan points out that Haley is using circular logic against Tarquin: She won't tell him that lives are at stake concerning the information she wants because she doesn't trust him, and she doesn't trust him because he's withholding information when lives are at stake. Haley is not pleased at having been out-logicked by The Ditz. Another instance, when Grubwiggler accuses the Thieves' Guild of robbing him even though he pays them protection: |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_58d80a4a | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_58d80a4a | comment |
In Jingo, the long-lost island of Leshp resurfaces in the sea between Ankh-Morpork and Klatch. Both nations have been at peace for decades and have no reason for conflict, but because Leshp is in such a strategic position and would be a natural staging point for a conflict, they can't afford to let the other country possess it. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_59da62aa | comment |
In the Fallout: New Vegas mod Autumn Leaves, this is why Arthur believes that Humans Are Bastards: because they kill to survive and are savages. Why are they savages? Because they have no knowledge or culture for themselves. If you ask him about the library being used to turn people into cultured human beings, Arthur states that the people of the Mojave don't deserve said knowledge because they are... well, savages. Pointing out this flawed reasoning actually fails the conversation- you're meant to prove that his paranoid personality core is the root of his problems. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_5c5077d4 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_5c5077d4 | comment |
Cain has Katsuki engaging in this constantly. So far as he's concerned, he's the hottest shit around, a natural choice for All Might's successor thanks to his incredible Quirk and unsurpassable power — clearly better than that powerless, Quirkless, worthless Deku! Yet he also justifies his Irrational Hatred of Izuku by claiming that Izuku's very existence makes his life utterly hellish... even while simultaneously insisting that Izuku's far too weak to actually do anything to him. To hear him tell it, Izuku is both an evil chessmaster masterfully manipulating everyone around him to ruin Katsuki's life, yet also completely unable to touch him. Which is why Katsuki hates him so much. | |
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xkcd In "Every Major's Terrible" song, a theology major can be seen writing a proof that goes "X, therefore there exists X". "AI Methodology": The research group's AI-based methodology has been questioned, but they used AI to prove it's a good methodology. |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_61750a5f | comment |
In the Porridge episode "Rough Justice", Judge Stephen Rawley, convicted of corruption, gets out on appeal. Fletcher notes that Mackay is now calling him Mister Rawley (he refers to prisoners by only their surname). | |
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In Fallout 3 it's possible to take down an enemy non-lethally by pointing out that they're using this fallacy. President Eden can be convinced by the player that he's using circular reasoning when he declares that he's infallible because he was programmed to be. As the player points out in this scenario, Eden's argument is "I know because I know." This initiates a Logic Bomb that allows the player to convince Eden to self-destruct. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_746814ae | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_746814ae | comment |
Arthur: In "Arthur's Big Hit" when Sue Ellen spots Binky hiding from Arthur in the bushes, she asks what he's doing there. Binky answers that he's avoiding Arthur so he doesn't have to hit him. Sue Ellen then asks why Binky wants to hit Arthur, to which Binky replies that he doesn't, which is why he's avoiding him. Since Binky never explains to her that his friends have threatened to kick him out of the club if he doesn't hit Arthur the next time he sees him, Sue Ellen is left confused by what appears to be this trope. | |
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A sketch on That Mitchell and Webb Look had a group of government agents justify covering up the Roswell incident in this way. They could release all the information now in order to gather support and build defences against a possible invasion, but people will be angry with the government when they learn that aliens exist, especially if there is an invasion and it turns out that the government knew about them for decades but did nothing to help gather support and build defences. | |
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X-Wing Series: In Starfighters of Adumar, Wedge points out the use of this trope as he takes apart the concept of a Proud Warrior Race Guy: | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_7668653b | comment |
In Mass Effect 3, Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics in the direction of the tech that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and it's Non-Standard Game Over. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_7a909592 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_7a909592 | comment |
Erik the Viking: "Well, if the only reason for the expeditions is the looting and pillaging, and the only reason for the looting and pillaging is to pay for the next expedition, then that's a circular argument, isn't it? They cancel each other out." | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_7ab10627 | comment |
In Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the ginormous space machine V'Ger is headed to Earth to seek "the Creator". So what is the Creator? | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_7c25402 | type |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_7c25402 | comment |
The School for Good Mothers: The mothers are practicing how to talk to their children using robotic dolls as proxies. An instructor tells Beth that her voice should be "as light and lovely as a cloud". When Beth asks how does a cloud sound, Ms. Russo says it sounds like a mother. This does not make sense to Beth, but Ms. Russo tells her that mothering is about a feeling, not about sense. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_8a5191fd | comment |
The School for Good and Evil: In A World Without Princes, the school is divided into a Boy side and a Girl side. Agatha needs to cross to the Boy side, but finds the way blocked by the magic barrier, which defines each side in terms of the other. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_8d8264fb | comment |
In Noob there seems to be little of this going on in Master Zen's situation and it comes up when Omega Zell gives him advice along the lines of "How about you stop harassing us and get yourself a hobby other than the MMORPG we're all playing?". Master Zen's reply can be paraphrased as "I can't keep myself busy with anything else than the MMORPG because I can't leave my hiding place. I escaped jail to be able to harass you guys on the game, remember?" | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_97abe183 | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_97abe183 | comment |
In the Jimmy Neutron TV movie, "The League of Villains", during a Kangaroo Court, T is upset that he has to be the court's bailiff instead of being on the jury with the rest of the villains. When he asks why he can't be on the jury, the villains tell him that they already voted on it. He asks why he didn't get to vote, to which the response is, "Because you're not on the jury." | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_99e32a93 | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_99e32a93 | comment |
In the Nomes Trilogy book Wings (about a certain almost insignificant subset of living things of Florida): | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_9ff7441c | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_9ff7441c | comment |
The Men from the Ministry: How does Mr. Lamb remember the to read the notes on the blotter? He has a notebook in which he writes notes to look at the blotter. How does he remember to look at the notebook? He has a reminder on the blotter. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_a183d57f | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_a183d57f | comment |
On Futurama, Fry says that he is drinking so much coffee because he has a night job, which he needs so he can buy coffee to stay awake for his night job. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_a47889a2 | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_a47889a2 | comment |
The song "Why We Build The Wall" from the musical Hadestown serves as a reminder for the workers Way Down Hadestown, and an explanation for the audience, as to why the workers are working so hard (specifically on the wall) every day and never seem to be done or have any end of their hardship in sight. In the format of Hades, the king of the underworld, asking a question and the workers answering it according to the laws of the underworld, the reasoning unfolds itself with every answer spawning a new question. The further the questions go, the more insane the reasoning seems to get, until the very last question and answer leave you standing with your mouth open: Why are they building the wall? Because then they have a wall to work upon. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_b0a9ed90 | comment |
Bill and Ted wish fervently for their band The Wyld Stallyns to become famous. However, they disagree on how they should make this happen: | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_b27fdd6d | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_b27fdd6d | comment |
The Catch-22 of the novel of the same name is Circular Reasoning. The dialogue that explains it: | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_b3693333 | comment |
Clue: The blackmail against Mr. Green is that he's gay. He has no issue with it himself, but he'd be fired if his employers (the State Department) found out because they'd view him as a security risk... which he is solely because of that policy. His stating such is met with a quick Beat. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_bd960b7c | comment |
Knowingly used in Basic Instructions. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_bdc49dbe | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_bdc49dbe | comment |
The policy below is played with in The Laundry Files, where the Laundry bosses are more logical. Pinky and Brain are required to attend Pride every year, thereby proving that their sexuality is not a secret that could be held over them. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
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In The Non-Adventures of Wonderella: Wonderella and Dr. Shark use this when confronting an high school student about the dangers of marijuana: | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_cdcf337d | comment |
In 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown, while discussing tapeworms, Sean Lock claimed you can only get a tapeworm from pork. When asked where the pigs get them, he responded that they get them from other pigs. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_e28573ba | comment |
When Trawn of Electric Wonderland takes a shortcut to her Home Base through 4chan's domain, she learns from passers-by that everyone there keeps repeating certain catchphrases because they're humorous, those catchphrases are humorous because everyone there keeps repeating them, and everyone there keeps repeating them because they're humorous. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
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Before it gained more acceptance, being gay and holding any sort of government-related position was (and still can be, depending on the government) a fireable offense, due to the belief that gay people would be inherent security risks. Of course, the reason they were guaranteed security risks were because of this policy — blackmailer finds out employee is gay, employee has to capitulate to the blackmail or else lose their job. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_ec80dae4 | comment |
On the Zero Punctuation review of World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, Yahtzee asked another player why he raids. The raider's reason is that it gets stuff. Why does he want stuff? To raid with. | |
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| Circular Reasoning / int_f02431f | type |
Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_f02431f | comment |
In The Creation Alchemist Enjoys Freedom, we have the case of Duke Bragas Regus. He lives in the Dolgaria Empire that fiercely embodies Klingon Scientists Get No Respect. As such, he sees non-combat god-given professions like [Alchemy] as inherently incompetent and useless. His son Thor is an alchemist, as learned through a magical appraisal. This prompts Duke Regus to do everything possible to make Thor appear useless, squashing the boy's chances of being useful and driving his accomplishments into obscurity from everyone, especially himself. | |
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Circular Reasoning | |
| Circular Reasoning / int_f7d8fd70 | comment |
The Goon Show: In one of the best-known exchanges between Eccles and Bluebottle (it was even included in a 1978 book about the series) Eccles has a piece of paper that he uses to tell Bluebottle the time. The paper reads "8 o'clock". Bluebottle asks Eccles how he knows when it's 8 o'clock. Eccles replies that he's got it written on a piece of paper. More unassailably, at one point Major Bloodnok declares: "If I don't eat soon, I'll die... and if I die, I won't eat soon!" |
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